Author Topic: Order of Operations with Special Initiative (Read 850 times)

Warrior_Monk · « **on:** June 18, 2012, 02:23:34 PM »

This came up in this thread, and I thought I'd ask here to avoid further derailment.

So, basic question: I rescue with a lone hero. They block with Assyrian Archer with 2K Horses. They play Stocks. Do they get to band before I can respond with an interrupt?

I seem to remember either Gabe or Tim saying special initiative takes precedence at a tournament a year or so ago, but I may be mistaken (it could have been a different ruling about the same combo I was working on...I'll have to try to remember the combo) since Prof A and Korunks disagreed. I thought I'd take the argument up here.

My problem with this ruling is that the enhancement's ability is completed, and other abilities resume. It seems that special initiative should always get priority to avoid complicated orders.

Such as this: I rescue with Lois. They block with an Assyrian Archer with 2K Horses. They play Stocks. They band to another Assyrian Archer with 2K Horses. They play Confusion. They then band to King Sargon II to search for Assyrian Camp.

At this point I can't use an "Interrupt the last enhancement opponent played...", and if I used Reach, it would have to interrupt both King Sargon II AND Stocks. I could try to find a more convoluted example of interrupting two instant abilities at once, but I'm hungry. In any case, it just seems odd, and this is definitely not a ridiculous situation in T2.

Quote from: Korunks on June 18, 2012, 08:42:01 AM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 17, 2012, 11:07:14 PM
Quote from: Minion of Jesus on June 15, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
If Manny has 2kH, plays a nasty battle winner, (nothing comes to mind right now, fill in the blank), and then bands to Balaam, who prevents any negaters your opponent plays. Unless the negater is Bravery of David or something like that.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they get a chance to interrupt before you get a chance to band.

You can not use insert abilities into another ability meaning once an EC has hit the battle all of his abilities(Weapon and Character) must complete before any action is taken. For the same reason you cannot AoTL and EC with chariots before he gets to draw 2 and play.

That is not a case of special initiative.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:39:32 PM »

Interrupt the Battle (Reach) interrupts:

1. Any ability removing you from battle.
2. The last enhancement played in battle (if not played by you)
3. All ongoing abilities.

So in your example:

Archer 1 plays Stocks to Capture Lois and bands. Archer 2 plays Confusion and bands. King Sargon searches for Camp.

Now Lois plays Reach. Reach interrupts Stocks (which is an ability removing her from battle, see 1.) and it interrupts Confusion (the last enhancement played). It doesn't interrupt Sargon (which is an instant ability). Lois can play an enhancement off of Reach, and if it gets rid of all EC's in battle, then Stocks and Confusion do nothing. If any EC's are left, then they work as normal (unless Lois uses another Reach). .

A similar situation (that can happen a lot even in T1) is Jezebel removing a green Hero, then banding to Ahab. Ahab was specifically designed to negate Two Bears as a way to stop Jezebel, so if what you were saying were true, and you could play Two Bears before the band, then Ahab wouldn't be very good at accomplishing one of the main purposes of his ability.

You are correct that in your above situation, a negate last wouldn't work. Similarly, if Jezebel bands to Ahab and Ahab plays something like Gib Trick (Pats) then you never get a chance to interrupt Jezebel (since the battle ends). You could also use Archer + 2k + Stocks + Archer + 2k + Forgotten History to accomplish much the same thing.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:51:25 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 18, 2012, 02:39:32 PM

Interrupt the Battle (Reach) interrupts:

1. Any ability removing you from battle.
2. The last enhancement played in battle (if not played by you)
3. All ongoing abilities.

So in your example:

Archer 1 plays Stocks to Capture Lois and bands. Archer 2 plays Confusion and bands. King Sargon searches for Camp.

Now Lois plays Reach. Reach interrupts Stocks (which is an ability removing her from battle, see 1.) and it interrupts Confusion (the last enhancement played). It doesn't interrupt Sargon (which is an instant ability). Lois can play an enhancement off of Reach, and if it gets rid of all EC's in battle, then Stocks and Confusion do nothing. If any EC's are left, then they work as normal (unless Lois uses another Reach). .

A similar situation (that can happen a lot even in T1) is Jezebel removing a green Hero, then banding to Ahab. Ahab was specifically designed to negate Two Bears as a way to stop Jezebel, so if what you were saying were true, and you could play Two Bears before the band, then Ahab wouldn't be very good at accomplishing one of the main purposes of his ability.

You are correct that in your above situation, a negate last wouldn't work. Similarly, if Jezebel bands to Ahab and Ahab plays something like Gib Trick (Pats) then you never get a chance to interrupt Jezebel (since the battle ends). You could also use Archer + 2k + Stocks + Archer + 2k + Forgotten History to accomplish much the same thing.

Somehow I always think it's the last instant, not the last enhancement. Whoops.

That seems less complicated. I'm going to have to remember the combo I had now... ...

This is slightly different, but what would happen in an example like this:
Rescue with Lois/Eunice. Assyrian Archer + 2K Horses + Stocks to capture Lois. I would now have special initiative, but they choose to band to another Assyrian Archer + 2K Horses + Stocks. Who do I get to play the interrupt on?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2012, 03:22:11 PM »

In that case, you could play the interrupt on either of them. If you played an interrupt on Eunice and stopped the Stocks that's capturing her, you could then play another interrupt on either of them and stop the Stocks capturing Lois. Or you can do Reach+AoCP and stop both Stocks and Archers at once.

Korunks · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2012, 03:48:17 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 18, 2012, 02:23:34 PM

Quote from: Korunks on June 18, 2012, 08:42:01 AM
Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 17, 2012, 11:07:14 PM
Quote from: Minion of Jesus on June 15, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
If Manny has 2kH, plays a nasty battle winner, (nothing comes to mind right now, fill in the blank), and then bands to Balaam, who prevents any negaters your opponent plays. Unless the negater is Bravery of David or something like that.
Actually, I'm pretty sure they get a chance to interrupt before you get a chance to band.

You can not use insert abilities into another ability meaning once an EC has hit the battle all of his abilities(Weapon and Character) must complete before any action is taken. For the same reason you cannot AoTL and EC with chariots before he gets to draw 2 and play.
That is not a case of special initiative.

Special Initiative is irrelevant in that situation you still cannot insert abilities in between parts of another.

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Author Topic: Order of Operations with Special Initiative (Read 850 times)

Warrior_Monk

Order of Operations with Special Initiative

Professoralstad

Re: Order of Operations with Special Initiative

Warrior_Monk

Re: Order of Operations with Special Initiative

Professoralstad

Re: Order of Operations with Special Initiative

Korunks

Re: Order of Operations with Special Initiative