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I AM SO HAPPY JT IS GOING IN ALL MY DECKS I HATE HARVEST TIME

i am way sad, r.i.p. Woman at the Well/Seeker of the Lost...


So, since you've been here twice, how about Siege with Wool Fleece? Two abilities or one ability that gets entirely prevented?

I AM SO HAPPY JT IS GOING IN ALL MY DECKS I HATE HARVEST TIME

i am way sad, r.i.p. Woman at the Well/Seeker of the Lost...


So, since you've been here twice, how about Siege with Wool Fleece? Two abilities or one ability that gets entirely prevented?

The way I see it, there is only one ability on Siege and Second Seal the way they are worded. "Do X and Y." seems distinct from "Do X. Do Y.", and both cards are of the former persuasion. Also, since Wool Fleece is worded similarly to JT (and both wordings seem kind of confusing given that prevents target abilities and not people or characters, right?) it would seem they have the same effect when it comes to multiple parts of an ability.

It seems to me that JT effectively works like this (currently): "Prevent all abilities that allow an opponent to remove a card from your draw pile" and Wool Fleece would similarly work like this: "Prevent all abilities that allow Evil Characters to band". In that case, I would say that Wool Fleece would entirely stop both Siege and Second Seal (given that bringing in the EC's is in fact banding, which as I've stated before seems strange to me).

Wool Fleece
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No Evil Characters may band • Play As: Evil Characters are prevented from banding. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Judges 6:36-38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)

Jerusalem Tower
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled. • Play As: All opponents are prevented from removing cards from holder’s draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched, revealed, and/or shuffled. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Nehemiah 12:38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)

In regard to your RIPs, Sven, I honestly don't think that WatW will be affected too much by the ruling (and I haven't even seen Seeker in a deck for quite some time). First, I still believe that JT will be a card that will be primarily only used by the few who are paranoid about deck discard, which is currently few from my observation. Second, in-play Fortresses (especially good ones) have never been easier to negate/discard than they are now, and that is a trend that I foresee will continue into the future.

The way I see it, Evil Character banding can happen one of two ways:

An Evil Character can use a printed/gained ability to band.
A character can play an enhancement to band in additional evil characters.

So when WF says EC's are prevented from banding, I'm inclined to say that it uses the first definition.

I just realized Wool Fleece's play as could be interpreted two different ways as well...

is it...

Prevent all abilities that allow evil characters to band.

or

Prevent all banding abilities on evil characters.

1st. it is a blanket ability. there is nothing on the card to suggest it is only innate banding.

So I have a question...

is forcing your opponent to draw considered removing cards from their deck?

If yes, after JT is changed to a protect, what happens when my opponent plays Mayhem? Am I stuck with no cards in my hand?

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 24, 2010, 01:37:13 PM

I just realized Wool Fleece's play as could be interpreted two different ways as well...

is it...

Prevent all abilities that allow evil characters to band.

or

Prevent all banding abilities on evil characters.

1st. it is a blanket ability. there is nothing on the card to suggest it is only innate banding.

I agree.  It seems to me that Siege and Second Seal have one "add to battle" (band?) ability that is has multiple card types as targets.

Note necessary, because Mayhem state allowing all player shuffle their deck and draw six cards, not discarding or removing any cards.

If you noticed, I asked before that if forcing an opponent to draw was considered removing cards from their deck.

im pretty sure theres a distinct difference between removing, drawing, and searching from deck.

Draw: Removing a card from deck and adding to hand.

searching for a card and adding to hand is NOT the same as drawing.

Taking a card out of the opponents deck and putting it in play is considered Removing it from their deck. There have been debates about if Harvest Time is stopped by J Tower, and for a while it wasn't. The reason being was that J Tower was a prevent, and Harvest Time could not be negated.

So, if Harvest Time is considered "removing from the deck" why wouldn't forced drawing?

I would like J Tower to protect from "forced drawing" because for game play purposes this helps stop some of the pain that is caused by Abom decks and hopefully would encourage users of those decks to have an actual defense with their greek stuff instead of just like 3 greek dudes, high places, some sites and abom. This would also help stop a few cards I expressed concern about during play testing which might become a problem if forced drawing has no counter.

But that is the beauty of Gold Luke and John, Mayhem and Abomination. That is the purpose of making that card. I vote to stay at it is, or else Gold would just got kill. Thank you.

Michael Leung

Luke would, Judges would be fine but I agree. Protect = OP.