Author Topic: Odd Negate question (Read 9933 times)

Isildur · « **on:** June 18, 2010, 10:46:22 PM »

I ra with a random Silver Hero and play Second Seal to bring every one in. Say I then have inish I play "Put to Flight". Would "Put to Flight" negate all of Second Seal? or would it only negate it bringing in the EC's? Same question goes for an opponent playing Siege.

Thanks!

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2010, 11:52:19 PM »

Special abilities Please.

I'd say SS is not negated because it is NOT an evil banding card, while siege IS negated because it IS an evil banding card.

Isildur · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2010, 12:03:12 AM »

Put to Flight
"All Banding of EC's is prevented and/or negated for remainder of battle."

Note this is the warriors version but I think the kings one is the same.

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I'd say SS is not negated because it is NOT an evil banding card, while siege IS negated because it IS an evil banding card.

I was asking if only the evil character banding was negated and would the good banding still work?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:11:28 AM »

I don't think the EC part of Second Seal is technically banding, I think it is part of the more general "add to battle" category. So Put to Flight wouldn't negate any part of Second Seal.

It would negate the EC's banding of Siege, but not the Heroes being added to battle, so it would be all of one player's heroes vs. the lone EC in this situation.

Josh · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2010, 11:41:05 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 19, 2010, 08:11:28 AM

I don't think the EC part of Second Seal is technically banding, I think it is part of the more general "add to battle" category. So Put to Flight wouldn't negate any part of Second Seal.

I thought that any ability that added a character to battle was considered a banding ability. Is this wrong?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2010, 10:11:42 PM »

Banding can only add to your side of the battle. So The Second Seal bands all of your Heroes in, and, in a more general sense, "adds to battle" your opponent's EC's.

Korunks · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2010, 12:57:59 PM »

This is news to me since I have been previously informed that Wool Fleece stops the EC's from entering battle when second seal is played.

Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No Evil Characters may band • Play As: Evil Characters are prevented from banding. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Judges 6:36-38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)

Has there been a ruling change that I missed?

Master KChief · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2010, 02:43:18 PM »

no, wool fleece still stops ec's from entering battle when ss is played.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2010, 02:54:47 PM »

Would wool fleece simply prevent ANY of Second Seal from activating? I dont remember if you can negate parts of a cards ability.

Korunks · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2010, 03:01:06 PM »

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no, wool fleece still stops ec's from entering battle when ss is played.

In that case why wouldn't put to flight function the same way?

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Would wool fleece simply prevent ANY of Second Seal from activating? I dont remember if you can negate parts of a cards ability.

Why not? HOH, Trembling Demon.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2010, 03:12:36 PM »

Good point with HoH and TD.

Heres another question. What happens if I play siege with HHI up?

HHI: Banding of Heroes is prevented. Good banding cards are ignored.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2010, 03:35:11 PM »

Assuming that Wool Fleece stops Second Seal from bringing in any EC's, the reverse would be true for HHI and Siege (no heroes are brought in). But I have my doubts that Wool Fleece stops Second Seal from bringing any EC's in, because I don't think I can band anyone to my opponent's side of the battle.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2010, 06:08:58 PM »

Lets take a look at the wordings again:

Siege
All of holder's Evil Characters in play and all of opponent's Heroes in play must join the battle.

Second Seal
All of holder's Heroes in play and all of opponent's Evil Characters in play must join the battle.

They're both the same, but opposites. Also, can you prevent half of a cards ability, when its all one sentence? Trembling demon's SA is two sentences.

Gabe · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2010, 06:35:44 PM »

In the REG, both Siege and The Second Seal are classified as banding cards. I believe that the combos mentioned with Wool Fleece and Household Idols both work.

The rules of banding don't allow you to add a character to your opponent's side of the battle unless the banding card specifies otherwise. Both Siege and The Second Seal specify otherwise.

Isildur · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2010, 07:58:50 PM »

Quote

The rules of banding don't allow you to add a character to your opponent's side of the battle unless the banding card specifies otherwise. Both Siege and The Second Seal specify otherwise.

So then Put to Flight works to stop only the evil banding?

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2010, 08:08:33 PM »

i would say so.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2010, 09:22:19 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on June 21, 2010, 06:35:44 PM

In the REG, both Siege and The Second Seal are classified as banding cards. I believe that the combos mentioned with Wool Fleece and Household Idols both work.

The rules of banding don't allow you to add a character to your opponent's side of the battle unless the banding card specifies otherwise. Both Siege and The Second Seal specify otherwise.

So can you prevent half of a one sentence ability? I'd assume its the SAME ability that bands in everyone.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2010, 11:17:15 PM »

I don't see why not. Jerusalem Tower prevents your Discard Pile from having stuff Discarded, but if someone activates that Egyptian curse, JT doesn't prevent it from happening to other opponent's D/C piles. In the same way, Siege with Wool Fleece up tries to band everyone in, but the Evil Characters portion is prevented, so only your opponent's Heroes eat your Korah's Rebellion.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2010, 11:27:21 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 21, 2010, 11:17:15 PM

Jerusalem Tower prevents your Discard Pile from having stuff Discarded, but if someone activates that Egyptian curse,

When you say Discard Pile, are you talking about Draw Pile? Because, I remember Jerusalem Tower didn't say anything about Discard Pile, and also JT doesn't prevent draw pile from discard, it is protected from discard. That is why Gabriel, confusion can look through deck but not taking out any cards. Just a clarification. Thank you.

Michael Leung

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2010, 11:59:28 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 21, 2010, 11:17:15 PM

I don't see why not. Jerusalem Tower prevents your Discard Pile from having stuff Discarded, but if someone activates that Egyptian curse, JT doesn't prevent it from happening to other opponent's D/C piles. In the same way, Siege with Wool Fleece up tries to band everyone in, but the Evil Characters portion is prevented, so only your opponent's Heroes eat your Korah's Rebellion.

Jersualem Tower: All opponents are prevented from removing cards from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched, revealed, and/or shuffled.

Oppressed and Robbed: While your human Evil Character is blocking, abilities that discard cards from draw piles cannot be negated.

Thats a COMPLETELY unrelated example. The curse does nothing to negate half of J-Towers SA, it just bypasses it with CBN. Also, based on the wordings, I'd say it would allow ANY players deck to be targeted for discard, since its worded similar to A-Pole. So, does anyone else have an example of negating half of a one sentence ability? I don't think it is/should be possible.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2010, 12:57:05 AM »

No no, the curse that Discards the top pile of every draw pile, not Oppressed and Robbed (Given Over to Egypt, I think?).

It works the same way. The Curse's ability is all one sentence (the relevant part), but is prevented from targeting some targets, but not others (the player with JT v. the player without JT). Siege w/Wool Fleece works the same.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2010, 01:05:05 AM »

Given Over to Egypt: On activation, if an Egyptian is in play, discard the top card of each opponent's deck. If any are Lost Souls, put them in play instead and discard this Curse at the end of the phase.

Ahh, I see what you mean now.

I don't quite understand how at the EXACT same moment, its prevented against one player, but not against everyone else. It targets all opponents decks at the same time.

Does this mean if I rescue with Shammah, and prevent Wrath of Satan, all heroes except mine are discarded? Its the exact same principle. If a card is prevented, its ability stops for the whole phase, period.

I still fail to see how you can prevent half of a one sentence ability.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2010, 01:10:10 AM »

You're not preventing half of an ability. The ability is carried out in full, but is prevented from actualizing some of its targets.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2010, 01:12:48 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 22, 2010, 01:10:10 AM

You're not preventing half of an ability. The ability is carried out in full, but is prevented from actualizing some of its targets.

Thats the job of PROTECT. Protect makes it so you cant target X cards. Prevent STOPS the ability from even activating, period. You know... its like a pre-emptive negate...? Negates have absolutely nothing to do with actualizing targets.

So answer my question about Shammah + Wrath. Why would shouldn't my opponents heroes be discarded if what you say is true.

X card is preventing Y card.

Y Card tries to activate and target Z cards in every players territory.

Its the same situation in both cases. They should work the same way.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2010, 01:18:46 AM »

Maybe because even though the ability activates all at once it is multi step.

EG

Try to d/c player 1's DP, JT prevents.

Try to d/c player 2's DP, no JT, top card is discarded.

etc.

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Author Topic: Odd Negate question (Read 9933 times)

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