Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Obadiah: All Heroes in play are immune to pale green brigade. If blocked by a pale green Evil Character, discard it after the battle (regardless of immunity).

Panic Demon (Pale Green): If rescue attempt fails, you may place this card on a Hero in a territory.  Hero cannot enter battle while this Panic Demon remains.  May band to Panic Demon.

Death of Unrighteous: Shuffle all Lost Souls and sites in holder's Land of Bondage into owner's draw pile.  Discard all Evil Characters in battle.

Question(s):

Obadiah makes RA. PD blocks. PD has initiative and plays DoU. Can PD be placed on a Hero in Rescuers Territory.

Can Obadiah use Visions or Sword of the Lord to cause that PD to battle another EC?

If PD can be placed on a Hero in Rescuers Territory (and it isn't on Obadiah), if Obadiah makes another RA does the placed PD have effect on a Hero when Obadiah makes that RA?

Can Obadiah band the Hero on which PD was placed for that RA?

Quote from: CountFount on December 01, 2008, 10:05:27 AM

Obadiah: All Heroes in play are immune to pale green brigade.

3) If PD was placed on a pervious turn I believe when Obadiah make the Hero immune to PG which would allow them to be banded into battle (provided you had a green card that could do that).

If PD was placed on a previous turn, would PD be discarded by Obadiah's entrance into battle by virtue of the immunity s/a of Obadiah? Or would he remain despite the immunity that Obadiah provides on the Hero he was placed upon previous to Obadiah's RA or BC?

Thanks for agreeing with me. I couldn't think of a scenerio where a hero that was immune could still be subject to PD. 

Grain Offering targets in-play as a default anyway. It's true that you wouldn't be able to play an immune card immediately after a battle-winner to stop it, but Panic Demon isn't removing the hero it's targeting, so I'm inclined to disagree with that disagreement. I believe Obadiah could play a card to band the PD'd hero into battle.

I think that since PD is PG and the character is immune to PG the PD (or any other PG placed card) would be discarded.

I disagree.  Immunity protects and limits the targets but it doesn't undo what has already happened.  If you used a Leprosy card on an earlier turn, the immunity wouldn't return the lost abilities to the hero or get rid of Leprosy.  So it doesn't undo the harm that PD has caused.  As long as the immunity remains it would stop further loss of abilities though.   

You can't UNLESS you interrupt first, which Obadiah doesn't.

I agree that normally you would have to interrupt for Obadiah's ability to help but since the PD was played on a previous turn it can't be negated so interrupting won't help.  I think that the PD's ability essentially protects the hero it is on from being brought into battle so even a CBN-banding card would not work to band them in.  The only way to deal with it is to get rid of the PD with cards that target placed evil cards. 

I think you could discard PD with any card that will discard a demon in play.  Is that right?   

The difference with Leprosy is that it is a sequence of instant abilities; PD has an ongoing ability, so immunity in this case would be preventing future "harm," correct? And so you wouldn't have to interrupt PD to band in the PD'd character in this case. I don't think PD would be discarded, though.

How does a PD remain on a character which is immune to PD?

Quote

think you could discard PD with any card that will discard a demon in play.  Is that right?   

Yes sir.

Quote from: CountFount on December 02, 2008, 10:06:44 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on December 02, 2008, 10:03:58 PM

The difference with Leprosy is that it is a sequence of instant abilities; PD has an ongoing ability, so immunity in this case would be preventing future "harm," correct? And so you wouldn't have to interrupt PD to band in the PD'd character in this case. I don't think PD would be discarded, though.

How does a PD remain on a character which is immune to PD?

The same way if you catch my punch it won't hit you but if I hit you and then you become able to catch it... You'll still have the bruise.

It seems to me that Obadiah being played "after you hit" me is like adding armor, although PD did its s/a for the interim now it can't continue to 'hit me' and must find a herd of pigs (my opponent's discard pile) to go dwell in. 

Obadiah's SA isn't permanent; it only lasts for that turn. And PD's SA isn't like constant punching, it's more like being tied up with rope. Obadiah's SA is basically saying that PD can no longer hold that rope, so the Hero can come loose if you want him to (and he will come out unharmed).

Better analogy.

The image in my head was that Panic Demon was grasping each end of the rope...and Obi's immunity stopped him from grasping it......A more futuristic analogy would be PD binding the hero with a stato-kinetic ray-gun. No analogies are perfect.

So Obadiah doesn't make a hero who has PD placed on it immune to PD because of the on going condition of PD's s/a. Correct?

Hey,

Both the "If rescue attempt fails" ability on Panic Demon and the "discard it after the battle" ability on Obadiah happen during battle resolution.  And the one on Panic Demon happens first, which means (assuming we disregard the immunity and thus the question of can Panic Demon be placed on a hero at all is irrelevant for the time-being) that Panic Demon is placed on a hero and then virtually immediately it is discarded.

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So then to address the question of can Panic Demon be placed on a hero at all since Obadiah grants immunity:

I am currently working under the understanding that a place ability targets the card that is placed and the place ability itself does not target the card it is placed on.  The effect that the placed card has on the card it is placed on does target the card it is placed on.

For the sake of example lets say the hero in the terriotry is Micah.  The place ability on Panic Demon targets Panic Demon and not Micah, so the fact that Micah is immune to (i.e. cannot be targeted by) Panic Demon does not stop Panic Demon from being placed on Micah.  The "hero cannot enter battle while this Panid Demon remains" does target Micah and thus the immunity from Obadiah would keep that from affecting Micah (albeit that's not very helpful because Obadiah's immunity ends at the end of battle which happens almost immediately after Panic Demon is placed).

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The main remaining question then seems to be how would the immunity of Obadiah affect a Panic Demon that was placed on a previous turn?

Once Obadiah enters battle it grants Micah (who already has Panic Demon on him) immunity to pale green, which removes the effect the Panic Demon is having on Micah until Obadiah's ability goes away, which would mean you could then band Micah into battle.

NOTE: This is the same type of situation as having a character with Palsy and activating Miraculous Handkerchiefs.

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To answer a couple of the simpler questions mentioned in this thread:

Yes a "discard a demon in play" can discard a Panic Demon that has been placed.

Panic Demon has to abilities.  An instantaneous place ability and an ongoing "the character it is placed on cannot enter battle" ability.  So yes Panic Demon has an ongoing ability, but no the place ability of Panic Demon is not ongoing.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne