2. You cannot rescue lost souls in your own Land of Bondage.
The draw phase is the first phase of a player’s turn. A player must draw three cards from the top
of his deck during his draw phase. Each Lost Soul drawn must be placed in that player’s Land of
Bondage, and the Lost Soul’s special ability activates. Each time a player draws a Lost Soul, he
must draw another card to replace it, until three cards except Lost Souls have been drawn. If no
cards are left in a player’s deck, the game continues using the cards that player has.
wouldnt this also work against you? like, if you had your own hopper, and it went to your opponent on turn 2, then, on turn 4 you draw son of God and play it to rescue your own hopper, which is in their LoB. Since its negated, wouldnt it go back to your own LoB, and then you wouldnt be able to rescue it?Once the Hopper is in their territory it cannot be negated in a later phase. Place abilities cannot be negated after the phase they were played in ends. This is why if you attack with Cheribum with Wheel Within a Wheel and they block with KoT, W3 isn't discarded after battle.
oh ok. Thankswouldnt this also work against you? like, if you had your own hopper, and it went to your opponent on turn 2, then, on turn 4 you draw son of God and play it to rescue your own hopper, which is in their LoB. Since its negated, wouldnt it go back to your own LoB, and then you wouldnt be able to rescue it?Once the Hopper is in their territory it cannot be negated in a later phase. Place abilities cannot be negated after the phase they were played in ends. This is why if you attack with Cheribum with Wheel Within a Wheel and they block with KoT, W3 isn't discarded after battle.
I don't see why dominants shouldn't be able to be played in the draw phase if it's in response to an opponent's action. It does say the upkeep phase follows immediately after, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't play cards during the draw phase.
Hey,Battle Resolution isn't exactly a phase, it's a subphase (like the artifact phase), but I guess I can live with that. Still, being able to negate Hopper off Feast/Hero draws seems good.I don't see why dominants shouldn't be able to be played in the draw phase if it's in response to an opponent's action. It does say the upkeep phase follows immediately after, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't play cards during the draw phase.
It's the same reason you can't play Harvest Time in response to your opponent's only remaining lost soul being underdecked with Hormah durring battle resolution. Like battle resolution, the draw phase (and upkeep phase) are "instant" phases, you do what must be done and move on.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Still, being able to negate Hopper off Feast/Hero draws seems good.
In the rulebook (which I accessed through the REG), under Diagram of a Turn --> Overview, it statesQuoteThe following phases are performed each turn, even if nothing is actively done on a particular phase. A response is allowed between every separate phase.This seems to say that Mayhem (and other dominants) could be played between phases, which would allow it to be played after drawing and before Sin in the Camp targets the 3 cards. If this is not the case, then this statement is misleading, because that is how I would interpret it...
Well done, Ken. That quote seems pretty clear to me. Nice find.
wouldnt this also work against you? like, if you had your own hopper, and it went to your opponent on turn 2, then, on turn 4 you draw son of God and play it to rescue your own hopper, which is in their LoB. Since its negated, wouldnt it go back to your own LoB, and then you wouldnt be able to rescue it?Once the Hopper is in their territory it cannot be negated in a later phase. Place abilities cannot be negated after the phase they were played in ends. This is why if you attack with Cheribum with Wheel Within a Wheel and they block with KoT, W3 isn't discarded after battle.
What you quoted says that cards can be played between phases, not during phases.It doesn't matter whether Mayhem can be played in draw phase or not only that it can be played before the next phase takes place.
wouldnt this also work against you? like, if you had your own hopper, and it went to your opponent on turn 2, then, on turn 4 you draw son of God and play it to rescue your own hopper, which is in their LoB. Since its negated, wouldnt it go back to your own LoB, and then you wouldnt be able to rescue it?Once the Hopper is in their territory it cannot be negated in a later phase. Place abilities cannot be negated after the phase they were played in ends. This is why if you attack with Cheribum with Wheel Within a Wheel and they block with KoT, W3 isn't discarded after battle.What you quoted says that cards can be played between phases, not during phases.It doesn't matter whether Mayhem can be played in draw phase or not only that it can be played before the next phase takes place.
I would say that you can do what the OP suggests if the hopper is drawn outside of draw phase. The only thing that can happen during your draw phase is drawing (and any resultant abilities of LSs drawn, such as shame, far country and territory discard).What about Upkeep Phase? The only thing that happens during upkeep is a turn is triggered and any abilities that specifically say it. Can I play Mayhem before they get to use Fishing Boat? Can I play SoG on a hopper drawn by Fishing Boat?
I would say that you can do what the OP suggests if the hopper is drawn outside of draw phase. The only thing that can happen during your draw phase is drawing (and any resultant abilities of LSs drawn, such as shame, far country and territory discard).What about Upkeep Phase? The only thing that happens during upkeep is a turn is triggered and any abilities that specifically say it. Can I play Mayhem before they get to use Fishing Boat? Can I play SoG on a hopper drawn by Fishing Boat?
I would say that you can do what the OP suggests if the hopper is drawn outside of draw phase. The only thing that can happen during your draw phase is drawing (and any resultant abilities of LSs drawn, such as shame, far country and territory discard).What about Upkeep Phase? The only thing that happens during upkeep is a turn is triggered and any abilities that specifically say it. Can I play Mayhem before they get to use Fishing Boat? Can I play SoG on a hopper drawn by Fishing Boat?
doesn't the hoppers ability need to complete before you can play SoG?
So I can play mayhem before my upkeep phase right?
Is it possible to tweak that slightly? I feel like saying "a Dominant can be played at any time" is misleading, which is why so many new players assume that if someone plays Authority of Christ or something, they could play Grapes to discard their evil character because the rule says "a Dominant can be played at any time".
Is it possible to tweak that slightly? I feel like saying "a Dominant can be played at any time" is misleading, which is why so many new players assume that if someone plays Authority of Christ or something, they could play Grapes to discard their evil character because the rule says "a Dominant can be played at any time".
Why? You can still play grapes, it just won't do anything. This doesn't change the fact that you can play it.
Dominants can't be played at any time. You can't play a dominant while a special ability or game rule is being carried out.
For example:
If you are resolving the battle phase by comparing numbers, you can't play a dominant.
If your evil character is decreased to 0/0 in battle, you can't play Grapes of Wrath on it before it is discarded by game rule.
If your opponent plays A New Beginning, you can't play your dominant really quickly before your hand gets shuffled.
Game effects that are automatically triggered cannot be interrupted by the playing of a dominant. For example, a decrease that results in a discard, the draw at the start of the turn, and the placement of counters during the upkeep phase.
I agree with Isildur that there shouldn't be any "between" phases. "Responses" to phases seems really odd to me, too.
There are cards that respond to things that happen in the draw and upkeep phases. For example, Lost Souls insert their abilities during the draw phase. Artifacts such as Gift of the Magi can trigger during an opponent's upkeep phase.
But those cards are played by game rule (Lost Souls), or are automatically triggered (Gifts). That is different than introducing a new card. It seems to me that you can't play a new card during the draw phase or upkeep phase if every turn begins with a command like this:
Draw 3. Add counters. Begin Preparation Phase.
The one possible issue is that if a dominant is played inadvertently before a player takes an upkeep action, then the action is completed, then the dominant completes.I think this could cause a slapjack situation, and therefore I would rule a bit differently here. Imagine I am drawing on my draw phase, and I already have 3 LSs rescued, and 2 more available in my opponent's land of bondage. I clearly want to play SoG/NJ as soon as I draw them, and my opponent clearly wants to play Mayhem to stop me. Just because he "inadvertantly" plays his Mayhem during my upkeep phase, that doesn't mean that it will happen before I can play my SoG/NJ. I still get the opportunity to respond to my own action of drawing to play my dominants first.
Gifts isn't the best of examples because Set-Asides don't come back until the preparation phase and the only way to draw during upkeep would be fortresses, but I get the point. Not what I would have wanted (dominants need more power, right?*), but the ruling is consistant and makes sense. Thanks PTB.Seven Years of Plenty draws during upkeep
*Yes, that was sarcasm.
Quote2. You cannot rescue lost souls in your own Land of Bondage.
To clarify, Westy is referring to using SoG on the same phase that Hopper is drawn to negate it. Honestly, I don't see how this wouldn't work. The negate comes first, and there's no game rule disallowing the ability to negate a soul in your territory.
Land of Bondage is part of Territory, and therefore is in play.
Perhaps you were confused because the Land of Redemption is out of play?
Land of Bondage is part of Territory, and therefore is in play.
Perhaps you were confused because the Land of Redemption is out of play?
Actually I was referring to the hopper's ability that says when drawn place in your opponents land of bondage. That means it doesn't become in play until it is in the opponent's land of bondage. Ergo cannot negate what is not in play and it would resolve by becoming in play.
That means it doesn't become in play until it is in the opponent's land of bondage.This is where you are confused. When LSs are drawn they automatically are placed into your own LoB. When the Hopper enters play (in your LoB), then it's SA activates which sends it to your opponent's LoB (assuming that it was drawn, and not put into your LoB by your opponent's Harvest Time or something).
Ah I see and getting more confused by the minute. I was going by the fact that it says when drawn and not when played. It doesn't say when it inters your land of bondage. this might need more clarification. A lot more.The Hopper is a Lost Soul card. Lost Soul cards, by definition, are immediately put into your land of bondage. When they are put in your land of bondage, their ability takes effect. This would then transfer it over to one of your opponents, but first it hits your land of bondage.
Ah I see and getting more confused by the minute. I was going by the fact that it says when drawn and not when played. It doesn't say when it inters your land of bondage. this might need more clarification. A lot more.