Author Topic: New SoG... (Read 5655 times)

Josh · « **on:** June 26, 2013, 05:05:08 PM »

I attack, my opponent blocks with Am Slave, captures to my LoB, searches for an EC, puts it in battle. I play new SoG on Am Slave, putting Am Slave back in battle and undoing the search, but I don't rescue anything because I can't rescue Am Slave. Then, on my turn, I attack with Angel at Tomb and shuffle SoG back into my deck, since it was discarded without rescuing a LS.

Is there anything wrong with the logic above?

wyatt_marcum · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:16:43 PM »

I dont think that the New SoG would negate Aslave like that.

pilgrim14 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:32:41 PM »

I think that like Uzzah he cannot be negated after his ability is activated

Nameless · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:36:33 PM »

I don't think you can even target Ls in your own territory.

pilgrim14 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:39:36 PM »

Quote from: Nameless on June 26, 2013, 05:36:33 PM

I don't think you can even target Ls in your own territory.

You can target then (with Burial for example) but you can't rescue them.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:46:43 PM »

I think I actually agree with the posted ruling

Red · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:08:41 PM »

This doesn't work. If DON can't target lampstand then Sog can't target souls in your Territory.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:10:18 PM »

Quote from: Red on June 26, 2013, 06:08:41 PM

This doesn't work. If DON can't target lampstand then Sog can't target souls in your Territory.

Why? The rule prevents it from rescuing, not targeting.

Drrek · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:13:55 PM »

Quote from: Red on June 26, 2013, 06:08:41 PM

This doesn't work. If DON can't target lampstand then Sog can't target souls in your Territory.

DoN can't target Lampstand because Lampstand is protected entirely from it. The rule on souls is that you can't rescue the ones in your own LOB, not that you can't target them for negation.

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »

The ability of AM as an EC does not convert when it becomes a LS. The FBTN LS doesn't negate it. Neither does SoG. As a LS it has no SA.

dermo4christ · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Red on June 26, 2013, 06:08:41 PM

This doesn't work. If DON can't target lampstand then Sog can't target souls in your Territory.

so, wait DoN can't target Lampy? Since when? Did I miss something?

Drrek · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:18:00 PM »

Quote from: dermo4christ on June 26, 2013, 06:17:09 PM

Quote from: Red on June 26, 2013, 06:08:41 PM
This doesn't work. If DON can't target lampstand then Sog can't target souls in your Territory.

so, wait DoN can't target Lampy? Since when? Did I miss something?

DoN cannot target Lampstand.

The Guardian · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2013, 06:18:16 PM »

DoN cannot target Lampstand because of the way DoN is worded.

w/ Gabe

SirNobody · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2013, 10:24:43 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Gabe on June 26, 2013, 06:15:11 PM

The ability of AM as an EC does not convert when it becomes a LS...As a LS it has no SA.

Just like a converted character still has an ability even if the ability doesn't work when converted, Amalekites Slave still has an ability when captured. Once it's captured it's ability will not activate again while it remains a lost soul, but during the phase it activated as a character it can still be negated.

Quote

The FBTN LS doesn't negate it. Neither does SoG.

The FBTN soul is a prevent, and when The Amalekites Slave activates it's a character not a lot soul, so the FBTN soul doesn't negate it. But I see no reason why Son of God wouldn't negate it.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Gabe · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2013, 10:41:15 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on June 26, 2013, 10:24:43 PM

Just like a converted character still has an ability even if the ability doesn't work when converted, Amalekites Slave still has an ability when captured. Once it's captured it's ability will not activate again while it remains a lost soul, but during the phase it activated as a character it can still be negated.

It can be negated as an Evil Character, or if a card existed that said to negate a capture ability. The Evil Character's ability will not be negated by any card that only negates a Lost Soul.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2013, 11:09:19 PM »

The only precedence I can think of is Deafening Spirit. Once played Deafening changes card type. If Samuel's Edict's negate ability targets Deafening Spirit, I see no reason why Deafening's negate and subsequent conversion would not be negated.

Isn't SoG on A Slave the same concept?

Kirk

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2013, 11:16:51 PM »

Deafening spirit remains an evil card. Sam's Edict negates an evil card.

dermo4christ · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2013, 11:25:50 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2013, 06:18:16 PM

DoN cannot target Lampstand because of the way DoN is worded.

w/ Gabe

So, because it says "Discard an active artifact in play." it can't target Lampy because Lampy protects all cards not in battle from evil doms. I get it. Makes sense....i think.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2013, 07:04:27 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on June 26, 2013, 06:15:11 PM

The ability of AM as an EC does not convert when it becomes a LS. The FBTN LS doesn't negate it. Neither does SoG. As a LS it has no SA.

So, if I activate Judas Iscariot (or Simon the Zealot types of cards), and then later they are captured, does the protection still remain in effect while they are a captured character?

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2013, 01:36:40 PM »

Clarification regarding DoN -> It cannot discard Lampstand but it CAN still negate it (you can't protect from negation). 2 DoNs played by 2 different players on the same Lampstand, for example, would be able to get rid of it.

Regarding Am Slave, I have the same question as YMT. I always thought StZ's protect remained active even if he was captured.

Drrek · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2013, 01:38:47 PM »

Quote from: browarod on June 27, 2013, 01:36:40 PM

Clarification regarding DoN -> It cannot discard Lampstand but it CAN still negate it (you can't protect from negation). 2 DoNs played by 2 different players on the same Lampstand, for example, would be able to get rid of it.

False, to negate with DoN you have to discard the artifact to negate it, because of the way the card is worded. Thus you cannot discard lampstand with 2 DoNs

browarod · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »

Quote from: Drrek on June 27, 2013, 01:38:47 PM

Quote from: browarod on June 27, 2013, 01:36:40 PM
Clarification regarding DoN -> It cannot discard Lampstand but it CAN still negate it (you can't protect from negation). 2 DoNs played by 2 different players on the same Lampstand, for example, would be able to get rid of it.

False, to negate with DoN you have to discard the artifact to negate it, because of the way the card is worded. Thus you cannot discard lampstand with 2 DoNs

I've always seen it played/ruled that you could still negate Lampstand with DoN (at the Nationals I went to, back when Lampy protected LoR, someone played DoN to negate Lampy for a phase so they could play Falling Away). Did that change recently?

Also, I don't see what you mean about the wording. It targets an artifact to discard and then negate. I see nothing that says the negate hinges on the discard.

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure why DoN can negate any Artifact at all since it says "Artifact's ability" (and abilities are numbers

).

Drrek · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2013, 01:52:16 PM »

Quote from: browarod on June 27, 2013, 01:49:16 PM

Quote from: Drrek on June 27, 2013, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: browarod on June 27, 2013, 01:36:40 PM
Clarification regarding DoN -> It cannot discard Lampstand but it CAN still negate it (you can't protect from negation). 2 DoNs played by 2 different players on the same Lampstand, for example, would be able to get rid of it.

False, to negate with DoN you have to discard the artifact to negate it, because of the way the card is worded. Thus you cannot discard lampstand with 2 DoNs
I've always seen it played/ruled that you could still negate Lampstand with DoN (at the Nationals I went to, back when Lampy protected LoR, someone played DoN to negate Lampy for a phase so they could play Falling Away). Did that change recently?

Also, I don't see what you mean about the wording. It targets an artifact to discard and then negate. I see nothing that says the negate hinges on the discard.

The negate hinges on the discard because it says "Discard an artifact. Artifact's ability is negated." In the second ability the "Artifact" is the artifact that was discarded. If you couldn't target the artifact for discard, there is nothing to target to negate.

EDIT: Here's a thread confirming this ruling if you want it.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/don-vs-lampstand-(related-to-poa-vs-12fg)/msg294240/#msg294240

Gabe · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2013, 03:47:01 PM »

For those interested in further reading on this topic you can find the discussion about TAS and the FBTN LS here.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2013, 03:49:35 PM »

Should I start a new thread for my question, then?

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Author Topic: New SoG... (Read 5655 times)

browarod

browarod