Author Topic: New ruling on Instead abilities being prevented, etc.  (Read 802 times)

Offline Josh

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New ruling on Instead abilities being prevented, etc.
« on: November 06, 2015, 01:58:09 PM »
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Question about new ruling in effect:

"An instead ability replaces a completed action or ability with another effect.  If this new effect is prevented, or cannot otherwise be completed in its entirety, then the original effect is still applied because the other effect did not happen 'instead'."

How does this work with RBD and 4 Drachma Coin, for example?  4DC person uses a Draw ability, RBD does what...?  RBD can't discard the non-LS it reveals, so they therefore shouldn't get "Insteaded" and should never be revealed.  But it can reveal LS and put them in play.  So what does it do, since you don't know ahead of time which cards RBD can "Instead" and which ones it can't?

Rain Becomes Dust - "All cards that an opponent draws because of a special ability used by that opponent are revealed instead. Place all revealed Lost Souls in opponent’s territory. Discard the rest."

Four Drachma Coin - "Protect the cards in your hand and deck from discard abilities on opponents’ cards. At any time, if Peter is in play, you may discard this card to draw 4."

EDIT:  The reason this matters is that if LS are revealed and put in play instead of drawn, they don't get replaced.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 02:00:15 PM by jmhartz »
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Offline kram1138

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Re: New ruling on Instead abilities being prevented, etc.
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 02:27:58 PM »
+1
All the cards are revealed. The discard isn't part of the instead. It simply discards any revealed cards. The reveal is the ability replacing the draw.
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Offline Praeceps

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Re: New ruling on Instead abilities being prevented, etc.
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 03:57:12 PM »
-1
All the cards are revealed. The discard isn't part of the instead. It simply discards any revealed cards. The reveal is the ability replacing the draw.

Hardly. If the discard wasn't part of the instead, then the cards would just be revealed and then sent to hand.

Based on the rule change, because you can't discard if they aren't LSs, regardless of the fact that LSs could still be put into play, then the instead can't be completed in its entirety and the original effect still happens.

TL,DR: While you have 4DC active RBD does nothing.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: New ruling on Instead abilities being prevented, etc.
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 04:34:00 PM »
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All the cards are revealed. The discard isn't part of the instead. It simply discards any revealed cards. The reveal is the ability replacing the draw.

Hardly. If the discard wasn't part of the instead, then the cards would just be revealed and then sent to hand.

Based on the rule change, because you can't discard if they aren't LSs, regardless of the fact that LSs could still be put into play, then the instead can't be completed in its entirety and the original effect still happens.

TL,DR: While you have 4DC active RBD does nothing.

No, kram is 100% correct.  RBD "insteads" the draw with a reveal.  That it then tells you what to do with the revealed cards is not relevant, those are additional effects.  You still did the reveal "instead."  RBD vs 4DC reveals the cards and puts them back instead of them being drawn.  The new ruling did not change that.

 


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