Author Topic: New rule proposal! (Read 6745 times)

Isildur · « **on:** August 21, 2013, 01:31:02 AM »

So I have a new rule proposal! Its easy its simple!

The change is........ Lost Souls discarded from deck are automatically placed into Land of Bondage.

Bam! Helps prevent soul drought and saves space on future cards.

Thoughts?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2013, 01:42:00 AM »

I'm not opposed to this, so long as they are still considered discarded for cost benefit abilities like Jephthah.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2013, 03:49:03 AM »

It does kill an entire deck type. Souls depletion (however you feel about it) is a strategy and for any other discussion most people are all for adding viable deck options.

Isildur · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2013, 03:57:13 AM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on August 21, 2013, 03:49:03 AM

It does kill an entire deck type. Souls depletion (however you feel about it) is a strategy and for any other discussion most people are all for adding viable deck options.

If im not mistaken Soul Depletion hasnt been a viable option since before the SoG/NJ rule change....

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2013, 04:08:39 AM »

Quote from: Isildur on August 21, 2013, 03:57:13 AM

Quote from: Jmbeers on August 21, 2013, 03:49:03 AM
It does kill an entire deck type. Souls depletion (however you feel about it) is a strategy and for any other discussion most people are all for adding viable deck options.
If im not mistaken Soul Depletion hasnt been a viable option since before the SoG/NJ rule change....

You're mistaken. Soul control can run with the big boys.

Isildur · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2013, 04:28:50 AM »

Wait.... I thought by Soul Depletion he meant the discarding of Souls so your opponent no longer has 5 they can rescue. This hasnt been viable since all the Soul Gen cards have been printed and the SoG/NJ rule change...

Soul Control is more like Heretics and friends right? How does this suggestion effect that strategy?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2013, 04:40:38 AM »

Quote from: Isildur on August 21, 2013, 04:28:50 AM

Wait.... I thought by Soul Depletion he meant the discarding of Souls so your opponent no longer has 5 they can rescue. This hasnt been viable since all the Soul Gen cards have been printed and the SoG/NJ rule change...

Soul Control is more like Heretics and friends right? How does this suggestion effect that strategy?

Soul Control is the cool name for Soul Lock, and I guarantee you, it's viable. The new SoG/NJ really didn't change too much. The slower metagame did. Additionally, most of the soul gen cards people are using are things like Fishers of Men, which really doesn't generate lost souls. Hopper is in everybody's deck, sure, but SWJ, Fishers, and Call take care of that nicely.

You won't find a lot of Cupbearer/Delagates/Survivors in the top cut decks.

I'm currently working on an article about Soul Control (among other things) for Redemption MetaGaming, so I'm not going to cover all of the new benefits just yet.

Bryon · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2013, 10:06:57 AM »

Quote from: Isildur on August 21, 2013, 01:31:02 AM

So I have a new rule proposal! Its easy its simple!

The change is........ Lost Souls discarded from deck are automatically placed into Land of Bondage.

Bam! Helps prevent soul drought and saves space on future cards.

Thoughts?

Great idea!

TheJaylor · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2013, 10:51:22 AM »

I don't really like this rule. If you happen to discard a LS off of your deck you just get lucky and hopefully it helps. Decks that purposefully d/c LSs off of your deck are hard enough to pull off as is that if you can do it and then get to 5 souls, you deserve to win anyways.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2013, 10:56:28 AM »

I'm also not keen on completely stopping an uncommon, and rather hard to execute, strategy like this.

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:03:32 AM »

I don't like it either. it takes away the possible costs of playing a deck discard defense.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:10:23 AM »

I like the idea. For those who are concerned about cost-benefit abilities, why not make this rule align with the drawing of LSs, in that you would discard the next card instead.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:14:49 AM »

I'd be okay with this as long as we made it: "If an opponent discards the top card of your deck and it's a Lost Soul put it in play and discard the next card in your deck instead." I'm not great with wording so it'd have to be revamped but you get the idea.

Drrek · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:17:50 AM »

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on August 21, 2013, 11:14:49 AM

I'd be okay with this as long as we made it: "If an opponent discards the top card of your deck and it's a Lost Soul put it in play and discard the next card in your deck instead." I'm not great with wording so it'd have to be revamped but you get the idea.

Why would they get to discard the next card as well? They're already getting a benefit with soul gen, why should they get another one with discarding a non-soul card as well?

STAMP · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:24:05 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 21, 2013, 11:10:23 AM

I like the idea. For those who are concerned about cost-benefit abilities, why not make this rule align with the drawing of LSs, in that you would discard the next card instead.

Oooh, I like this even better.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:34:43 AM »

Not a fan.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:38:01 AM »

I do not support the idea. I don't see a good reason for it, and as has been stated, it removes a somewhat difficult strategy that is fun to try out.

STAMP · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:38:16 AM »

So it's unanimous: young turks oppose the rule while the wiser generation like it.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:43:11 AM »

Quote from: STAMP on August 21, 2013, 11:38:16 AM

So it's unanimous: young turks oppose the rule while the ~~wiser~~ older generation like it.

So it seems. Now we just need to get MJB's and Wild Bill's opinion on it to see if your theory holds true.

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:47:28 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 21, 2013, 11:43:11 AM

Quote from: STAMP on August 21, 2013, 11:38:16 AM
So it's unanimous: young turks oppose the rule while the ~~wiser~~ ~~older~~ wilder generation like it.

So it seems. Now we just need to get MJB's and Wild Bill's opinion on it to see if your theory holds true.

QFT

Red Warrior · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2013, 11:48:51 AM »

Pete-New-Player goes "Whew... I don't have any lost souls in play after using my burial... and I'm not gonna use any draw cards because I don't want to chance drawing souls I can't defend... So I attack with Jepthah... YAY I DISCARDED A LOST SOUL"... then Forum-Following-Frank informs Pete that the soul actually goes into play instead... Pete laughs "you're a funny one frank"...

I definitely don't like rules that are counter-intuitive, unless they are absolutely necessary (and I deeply appreciate the Elders and wise players helping to make the hard decisions when new rules need to be made to maintain game quality). This is not one of those changes.

STAMP · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2013, 12:01:40 PM »

At my tournaments Pete never laughs anymore when he plays Demon-Capturing-Paul.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2013, 12:21:55 PM »

I don't like the rule, and agreeing with west, it is a viable option. I built a demons magicians defense with woman and fishers to go hunt the hopper, jeptha divinations, SSS and DoU + Demon behind the idle - they kept flushing unwanted soul gens back to my opp and gave me multiple ways to make sure the hopper landed out of my LOB.

Long story short it won several more (fun) games than it lost against Josiah and a friend of mine who is a State caliber player that was running Gen with all the Egyptian soul gen.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2013, 12:23:09 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on August 21, 2013, 11:48:51 AM

Pete-New-Player goes "Whew... I don't have any lost souls in play after using my burial... and I'm not gonna use any draw cards because I don't want to chance drawing souls I can't defend... So I attack with Jepthah... YAY I DISCARDED A LOST SOUL"... then Forum-Following-Frank informs Pete that the soul actually goes into play instead... Pete laughs "you're a funny one frank"...

I definitely don't like rules that are counter-intuitive, unless they are absolutely necessary (and I deeply appreciate the Elders and wise players helping to make the hard decisions when new rules need to be made to maintain game quality). This is not one of those changes.

1. New players should have a defense.
2. Pete would be equally unhappy if Frank's Jepthah, Burial, and lone site meant that he would have no way to win a 5th LS.
3. The rule is not counter-intuitive since the vast majority of other cards that discard from deck specify that the LS goes in play instead.

browarod · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2013, 02:03:53 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 21, 2013, 12:23:09 PM

2. Pete would be equally unhappy if Frank's Jepthah, Burial, and lone site meant that he would have no way to win a 5th LS.

If the opponent's deck went perfectly and got off its primary combo, then they should be applauded for good player skills (and/or lucky draws, lol). Will you feel down that you lost? Sure. But you should then look to your own deck and what could be better, not to how the opponent's deck is overpowered or "broken" and try to change the rules to prevent the opponent's strategy from working next time. The whole purpose of Redemption is to pilot your deck to 5 Redeemed Souls before your opponent(s). We shouldn't be punishing players for adhering to and succeeding in that purpose.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 21, 2013, 12:23:09 PM

3. The rule is not counter-intuitive since the vast majority of other cards that discard from deck specify that the LS goes in play instead.

I'm calling shenanigans on this reason. Special abilities are specifically to do things you normally can't do, so if something shows up on a card (or lots of cards) then that means it's definitely NOT a rule and (in my opinion) shouldn't be one.

News:

Author Topic: New rule proposal! (Read 6745 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod