Author Topic: New Paul and old Saul/Paul (Read 1956 times)

turtlegamer81 · « **on:** March 08, 2017, 09:59:39 AM »

With the new Paul coming out I have a question can you have both the Old Saul/Paul and the new paul in the same deck

Watchman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2017, 11:02:09 AM »

Quote from: Four_Corners5 on March 08, 2017, 10:24:37 AM

I think Saul and Paul are considered to be the same Character. Otherwise you should on the same line of logic be allowed to use King David and David the Shepherd in one deck because King David represents a later part of David's life. Paul is Saul after converted. It doesn't make sense to allow the same character as long as the card represents a different aspect of their later life
Paul and Saul/Paul is a unique situation, but I don't think you can have both in play.

At face value though the Saul/Paul card is an evil character, not a hero. Only upon conversion does he become a completely different character (a hero). So if you leave him as Saul and use promo Paul then he can be in your deck. It would be best to do this and if promo Paul is discarded or banished then you could convert Saul and get a new Paul.

Ironisaac · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2017, 11:07:29 AM »

Quote from: Watchman492 on March 08, 2017, 11:02:09 AM

Quote from: Four_Corners5 on March 08, 2017, 10:24:37 AM
I think Saul and Paul are considered to be the same Character. Otherwise you should on the same line of logic be allowed to use King David and David the Shepherd in one deck because King David represents a later part of David's life. Paul is Saul after converted. It doesn't make sense to allow the same character as long as the card represents a different aspect of their later life
Paul and Saul/Paul is a unique situation, but I don't think you can have both in play.

At face value though the Saul/Paul card is an evil character, not a hero. Only upon conversion does he become a completely different character (a hero). So if you leave him as Saul and use promo Paul then he can be in your deck. It would be best to do this and if promo Paul is discarded or banished then you could convert Saul and get a new Paul.

But they are the same character. I guess this question can also be applied to king saul. can you have the evil version from, let's say kings, and the hero from warriors in play at the same time? i don't think you can, which applies to this as well.

Master Q · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2017, 11:18:30 AM »

You could not have evil Saul and Hero Paul in play at the same time. This is the same for King Saul (as was the ruling when Samuel decks first became a thing). They are the same unique character.

You can use them in the same deck because the different art/brigade rules would allow that.

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2017, 12:21:04 PM »

Xonathan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2017, 12:50:29 PM »

Can Ananias of Damascus search for the new Paul promo? I heard there were some new rule changes about same unique characters and targeting and such

Watchman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2017, 01:16:26 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 08, 2017, 12:21:04 PM

Would there be a deck disqualification (based upon same unique character and same brigade color) if new Paul was drawn to hand but Saul was in territory and then Saul was converted to old Paul, or is the deck building rule only for initial deck building and not what may happen to a card through the course of the game?

browarod · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2017, 01:23:24 PM »

Deck building rules are only for initial deck building (and, in the case of Haman's Plot in T2, for between rounds). As long as your deck is legal when the game begins that's all that matters.

Watchman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2017, 01:37:19 PM »

Quote from: Browa on March 08, 2017, 01:23:24 PM

Deck building rules are only for initial deck building (and, in the case of Haman's Plot in T2, for between rounds). As long as your deck is legal when the game begins that's all that matters.

Figured as much. Thanks sir.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2017, 06:54:14 PM »

Quote from: Xonathan on March 08, 2017, 12:50:29 PM

Can Ananias of Damascus search for the new Paul promo? I heard there were some new rule changes about same unique characters and targeting and such

Fantastic question! Saul and Paul are the same person (just as King David and David, the Shepherd are the same person), and his name was never changed (although he did start preferring one language's version of his name over the one he preferred prior to his conversion), so it would appear that he can search for the new Paul.

megamanlan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2017, 11:04:37 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on March 09, 2017, 06:54:14 PM

Quote from: Xonathan on March 08, 2017, 12:50:29 PM
Can Ananias of Damascus search for the new Paul promo? I heard there were some new rule changes about same unique characters and targeting and such
Fantastic question! Saul and Paul are the same person (just as King David and David, the Shepherd are the same person), and his name was never changed (although he did start preferring one language's version of his name over the one he preferred prior to his conversion), so it would appear that he can search for the new Paul.

Actually isn't that not exactly the case since cards that mention specifically "King David" don't affect any other version of David?

The Guardian · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2017, 11:41:39 AM »

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/rules-announcements/duplicate-cards-updated/

That was changed last year--all references to a unique character refer to all versions of that unique character.

Ananias can search for the new Paul.

megamanlan · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2017, 12:09:00 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 10, 2017, 11:41:39 AM

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/rules-announcements/duplicate-cards-updated/

That was changed last year--all references to a unique character refer to all versions of that unique character.

Ananias can search for the new Paul.

Okay that makes sense. Because it was weird that I think Michael could be negated by David, but not King David (or something like that). Not to mention weird things like stuff would apply to a variation of a character but not all variations. It makes more sense to streamline it.

Josh · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2017, 12:56:36 PM »

Ananias' ability says "Negate Sites. Once per game, you may search deck or discard pile for N.T. Saul, play and convert him. Protect Paul from opponent's cards while he is in territory." Does that mean Paul would be converted to just Clay, since Ananias is Clay?

kariusvega · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2017, 01:03:42 PM »

Why not any brigade

Josh · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2017, 08:12:12 PM »

Quote from: kariusvega on March 10, 2017, 01:03:42 PM

Why not any brigade

From the REG:

Default Conditions
● Converted characters are converted to the brigade color of the card with the convert ability

Seems pretty straightforward. Ananias can fetch Paul and park him safely in territory, but Paul loses his Greenness.

kariusvega · « **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2017, 08:38:20 PM »

good find

Watchman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2017, 03:14:51 AM »

Quote from: jmhartz on March 11, 2017, 08:12:12 PM

Quote from: kariusvega on March 10, 2017, 01:03:42 PM
Why not any brigade

From the REG:

Default Conditions
● Converted characters are converted to the brigade color of the card with the convert ability

Seems pretty straightforward. Ananias can fetch Paul and park him safely in territory, but Paul loses his Greenness.

Then does that mean when the old Paul is coverted he's not multi-brigade but only clay? I thought I read a thread on here recently (I believe I asked the question, actually) if he remains rainbow and the answer was yes, from what I recall.

browarod · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2017, 11:34:51 AM »

Old Paul remains rainbow, I believe, because he has an identifier that when he is converted he becomes the rainbow version with that special ability. New Paul has no identifier to keep him clay/green.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2017, 07:29:47 PM »

Using Ananias is a great way to keep your Brigades down to just Clay if Barnabus isn't around and you want Paul. I think there's a card called "Jezebel" too that may be affected by this sneakery.

News:

Author Topic: New Paul and old Saul/Paul (Read 1956 times)

browarod

kariusvega

kariusvega

browarod