Author Topic: Neutral Brigades (Read 3240 times)

egilkinc · « **on:** April 23, 2009, 11:08:08 AM »

hey,
Do Neutral cards and/or cards played as Neutral (Sites, Covenants, Curses, ~~Captured Characters~~) have brigades that count towards the number of brigades a player has in play? Also, do Fortresses have brigades that count?
This is for cards like Elon ("If opponent has 3 or more evil brigades in territory, return one of opponent's Evil Characters to the bottom of opponent's draw pile.") or Lost Soul - Jeremiah 17:9 ("Negate Hero special abilities of any opponent with more than three good brigades in play.").
Thanx,
Gil

TimMierz · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:11:09 AM »

I believe an "evil brigade" is a "brigade on an evil card," and similarly with "good brigade."

Covenants are good cards and Curses are evil cards, even if activated as artifacts. Therefore, they have brigades.
Fortresses have no brigade, just alignment (good or evil).
Sites have no alignment, and therefore their brigade colors don't add to the "good brigade" count.

egilkinc · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:13:09 AM »

Quote from: TimMierz on April 23, 2009, 11:11:09 AM

Fortresses have no brigade, just alignment (good or evil).

hey,
The Fortresses are all listed in the REG as being "Multicolor" brigade.
And, "Multicolor cards implicitly represent all brigade colors at once."
I've been playing that they do not have brigades, but now I'm wondering where we got that idea.
L8er,
Gil

The Schaef · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:13:38 AM »

Brigades on neutral cards are for reference only and do not count towards the number of good/evil brigades in play.

Covenants and Curses retain their good/evil alignment even when they are being used as Artifacts, because they are still Covenants/Curses at that time.

Fortresses and Dominants do not have brigades at all. The color of their icons only show alignment.

Even if captured chracaters are eventually ruled to retain their brigade, I would assume their brigades would not count toward good/evil totals, since they no longer have an alignment.

egilkinc · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:24:12 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on April 23, 2009, 11:13:38 AM

Covenants and Curses retain their good/evil alignment even when they are being used as Artifacts, because they are still Covenants/Curses at that time.

hey,
The REG Glossary entry states that I am to "disregard" the good/evil element and play it as I "would any other artifact." This seems to indicate to me that when playing it as a (neutral) artifact, I would treat it as neutral - not allowing it to retain it's alignment or brigade. I've been playing that it's brigade does count, but now I'm wondering where we got that idea.
Thanx,
Gil

TimMierz · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:28:23 AM »

Covenant Breakers: "Discard one Covenant in play. Covenant’s owner may discard a card matching that Covenant’s brigade from territory to negate this."

I believe that this card was part of the rationale behind making that so.

The Schaef · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:37:34 AM »

Quote from: egilkinc on April 23, 2009, 11:24:12 AM

The REG Glossary entry states that I am to "disregard" the good/evil element and play it as I "would any other artifact."

What that means is to ignore the Enhancement part of it. Alignment and brigade are retained and that definition needs work.

egilkinc · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2009, 12:03:31 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on April 23, 2009, 11:28:23 AM

Covenant Breakers: "Discard one Covenant in play. Covenant’s owner may discard a card matching that Covenant’s brigade from territory to negate this."

I believe that this card was part of the rationale behind making that so.

hey,
Right, that's the one reference I found to Covenant/Curse brigades. Through some (twisted?) logic, however, it may not be relevant. The question remains of when the Cov/Curse has a brigade. Since he Cov. is discarded first and then its brigade is checked, it didn't necessarialy have a brigade before it was discarded.
That also doesn't mean that it retains its alignment when it is treated as a (neutral) artifact. Even if it does have a brigade when treated as an artifact, it could be considered to have a neutral brigade just like Lost Soul Sites. Where do we get the idea that it retains its alignment when treated as a neutral card?
L8er,
Gil

Bryon · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2009, 12:14:02 PM »

A covenant is still a covenant even when treated as an artifact. Covenants are good, and covenants have brigades. They don't lose those things just because you are USING the card as an artifact.

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2009, 12:15:45 PM »

Gil,
I think that's trying too hard and splitting hairs too fine. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel just to get it to work as intended.

A Covenant can be treated as an Enhancement or an Artifact, but in either situation, as well as its face value in deck/discard pile/hand, it is always a Covenant, and therefore always a good card with a brigade.

FresnoRedemption · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:37:09 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on April 23, 2009, 12:15:45 PM

Gil,
I think that's trying too hard and splitting hairs too fine. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel just to get it to work as intended.

A Covenant can be treated as an Enhancement or an Artifact, but in either situation, as well as its face value in deck/discard pile/hand, it is always a Covenant, and therefore always a good card with a brigade.

In that case, I do have a question. If a Covenant or Curse is being used as an Artifact or an Enhancement, then depending what it's being used as, can cards that target Artifacts or Enhancements also target a Covenant or Curse? For instance, if a Covenant is being used as an Artifact, can it be discarded with Artifacts Destroyed (Discard one active Artifact from each opponent's territory)? Or if it's being used as an Enhancement, can it be negated and discarded by a card that says to negate and discard an Enhancement in battle?

TimMierz · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:41:11 PM »

They share all characteristics of Cov/Curse and of whatever they're imitating. Aaron's Rod will discard a Curse used as an enhancement, and Artifacts Destroyed will discard a Covenant used as an artifact.

The Schaef · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:41:25 PM »

Yes, you can target an active Covenant as a Covenant or as whatever additional card type it is currently being treated as.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:45:25 PM »

all very good questions with very tricky answers. Almost like trying to fit a piece into a puzzle. Reminds me of the neverending story- the nothing is growing

FresnoRedemption · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:46:37 PM »

Okay, cool. So if you play a Covenant/Curse as an Artifact, then it basically shares two card types, Covenant/Curse and Artifact, and therefore can be targeted by cards that target Covenants/Curses or Artifacts, and same if the card is a Covenant/Curse being used as an Enhancement. It shares two card types, Covenant/Curse and Enhancement, and can be targeted by cards that target either card type.

TimMierz · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:48:57 PM »

Yous gots it!

The Schaef · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2009, 02:53:10 PM »

Right. It can be an Artifact, or it can be an Enhancement, but only when used as one of those types. It is ALWAYS a Covenant, in addition to whatever else it might be, or even if it is nothing else at the moment (in hand).

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Author Topic: Neutral Brigades (Read 3240 times)

egilkinc

Neutral Brigades

TimMierz

Re: Neutral Brigades

egilkinc

Re: Neutral Brigades

The Schaef

Re: Neutral Brigades

egilkinc

Re: Neutral Brigades

TimMierz

Re: Neutral Brigades

The Schaef

Re: Neutral Brigades

egilkinc

Re: Neutral Brigades

Bryon

Re: Neutral Brigades

The Schaef

Re: Neutral Brigades

FresnoRedemption

Re: Neutral Brigades

TimMierz

Re: Neutral Brigades

The Schaef

Re: Neutral Brigades

RTSmaniac

Re: Neutral Brigades

FresnoRedemption

Re: Neutral Brigades

TimMierz

Re: Neutral Brigades

The Schaef

Re: Neutral Brigades