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Author Topic: negating Egyptian Warden.  (Read 2141 times)

Warrior_Monk

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negating Egyptian Warden.
« on: November 15, 2009, 03:47:53 PM »
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ok, so Wanderer RA's with Jacob. I block with Egyptian Warden and discard Ruthless. he plays Abe's Serv to negate Egyptian Warden's ability. I then retrieve my Ruthless from the discard pile and play it to negate Abe's serv. what happens? because I already triggered Egyptian Warden's ability, does it capture, or because the trigger is no longer there, does it not work, or do I get to re-use Warden's ability? or what??!!
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 04:08:35 PM »
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Based on the following REG quote, I would see Warden as card A, Abe's Servant as card B, and Ruthless as card C. Based on this, Warden would take effect and allow you the choice of discarding a gold enhancement from hand for the capture (if you still have one).

Instant Abilities > Interrupt or Negate Last > How to Use

Here is how to RESOLVE the timing issues associated with interrupt, prevent and negate cards as they are played.  Put these cards in a stack (mentally if not physically) in the order they are played.  The last card (top card) on the stack gets resolved first.  For example, if I play card A, then you interrupt with card B, then I interrupt with card C, we resolve the actions in a ‘last on, first off’ manner.  So card C’s actions are first, which in the above case would eliminate card B, so card A would be the last one standing and take effect.

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Offline SirNobody

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 04:31:23 PM »
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Hey,

I think that negating an ability then having the negate negated, affects the negated ability the same way as interrupting the ability does.  So Abraham's Servant to Ur and Ruthless together affect Egyptian Warden the same way as an interrupt the battle would.

After the interrupt effect (or double negate) happens Egyptian Warden kicks back in, but it's target (ruthless in your hand) is no longer valid because it's no longer in your hand, so the ability no longer works.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 06:45:54 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on November 15, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
After the interrupt effect (or double negate) happens Egyptian Warden kicks back in, but it's target (ruthless in your hand) is no longer valid because it's no longer in your hand, so the ability no longer works.
Woohoo! Thats what I said!

Alan: 1
Andrew: 0
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 10:29:07 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on November 15, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
After the interrupt effect (or double negate) happens Egyptian Warden kicks back in, but it's target (ruthless in your hand) is no longer valid because it's no longer in your hand, so the ability no longer works.

The SA targets a "gold enhancement from hand," and cards in hand are not revealed, so how would the SA know it was Ruthless?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 11:57:16 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 15, 2009, 10:29:07 PM
The SA targets a "gold enhancement from hand," and cards in hand are not revealed, so how would the SA know it was Ruthless?

Technically I think you would have to tell your opponent what card in your hand you are targeting and show it to him to prove that it meets the qualifications.  Functionally, you are immediately discarding it so the card that ends up in the discard pile is obviously the card that was targeted.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 04:00:20 PM »
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The way I have always played is that I bring EW into battle and declare that I am going to capture unless you can negate it. I never actually reveal the card I am discarding until I discard it for the capture. If there was no capture, then there was no discard. I don't think this situation should be lumped in with general targetting of cards in play.

For instance, what if I block your Lydia with my Queen Taphenes to target the top card of your deck. If you play Reach of Desperation and do all the abilities, then play a non-battle winning enhancement, QT's SA would kick back in. Does that mean I discard the card that you had drawn? What if it is a card now in play?

I would think instead that I would now target the card currently on the top of your deck. Is this really not the case? I think this is a counterintuitive rule if it is the case and will lead to many incorrect rulings.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 04:51:55 PM »
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Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 16, 2009, 04:00:20 PM
The way I have always played is that I bring EW into battle and declare that I am going to capture unless you can negate it. I never actually reveal the card I am discarding until I discard it for the capture. If there was no capture, then there was no discard. I don't think this situation should be lumped in with general targetting of cards in play.

Egyptian Warden reads "You may discard an evil gold Enhancement from hand to...".  If you don't discard first you don't get to target a Hero for capture.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 16, 2009, 04:00:20 PM
For instance, what if I block your Lydia with my Queen Taphenes to target the top card of your deck. If you play Reach of Desperation and do all the abilities, then play a non-battle winning enhancement, QT's SA would kick back in. Does that mean I discard the card that you had drawn? What if it is a card now in play?

The Queens ability must complete first, before any players ever determine initiative or have a chance to play Enhancements.  Then, even if Reach is played, it won't interrupt the Queens ability because it's an instant effect, not an ongoing one.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 05:29:30 PM »
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Quote from: BrianGabe on November 16, 2009, 04:51:55 PM
The Queens ability must complete first, before any players ever determine initiative or have a chance to play Enhancements.  Then, even if Reach is played, it won't interrupt the Queens ability because it's an instant effect, not an ongoing one.

Bad example then. What if I play Egyptian Spear on QT, then you play Reach?
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: negating Egyptian Warden.
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 10:48:25 PM »
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Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on November 15, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: SirNobody on November 15, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
After the interrupt effect (or double negate) happens Egyptian Warden kicks back in, but it's target (ruthless in your hand) is no longer valid because it's no longer in your hand, so the ability no longer works.
Woohoo! Thats what I said!

Alan: 2
Andrew: 1
YMT agreed with me. Tim and Gabe agreed with you...
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