Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: megamanlan on June 12, 2012, 02:15:41 PM
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If I go to Battle w/ tDP and Band to Warden (who was decreased to 0/0 by GoS, but was Protected by Throne Room in territory) so I capture a effect Judge thats not Sam and Warden dies.
1. Does my Opponent have the Opportunity to Negate it using Sam's Edict w/o ITB?
2. If so, I can interrupt it if he kills my tDP after Warden dies?
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1. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, but Warden's SA is negatable because during the special initiative window, he has not yet been Discarded by game rule.
2. Again, still not sure what the question is.
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Warden can be Negated, but he's already dying. As soon as his effect is done he dies, I'm asking can he be negated even though he dies after the Hero is captured.
For 2, I'll give an example:
Opponent goes to battle with Jair
I block with Dreaming Pharaoh, Draw 3 and band to Warden who has 0/0.
I D/C a Gold Enhancement to Capture Jair and Warden dies.
1. Can Opponent use Sam's Edict?
2.If so, and my Opponent D/C's tDP, can I interrupt that since I am losing?
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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
Both are special initiative cases, so you can negate or interrupt the ability that is causing special initiative.
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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
Both are special initiative cases, so you can negate or interrupt the ability that is causing special initiative.
Agreed completely. You can still interrupt/negate a card that is causing a losing condition during special initiative when it is out of play (see the Invoking Terror rulings).
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Invoking was ruled that u have to ITB or use a Negate last against it.
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this is wrong cause im pretty sure i was aloud to use blessings against it which is simply fbtn this being because special initive lets me play the fbtn card b4 resolution. but now you have me confused too.
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Invoking was ruled that u have to ITB or use a Negate last against it.
This is a bit different, though. Invoking Terror's ability places itself out of play, but the ability on TDP must resolve completely before the discard from numbers can occur. That means it can be negated, because he is not actually out of play yet, since it is not the ability removing him from play and it must resolve completely before he can be discarded by game rule.
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Okay, that makes more sense.
Also, no you cant Negate Inovking by a FBTN card because it takes itself out of play by its effect, so u must Interrupt the battle or play a Negate Last card, because otherwise Negates default to play.
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Wrong. During special initiative, it's still in play.
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Wrong. During special initiative, it's still in play.
That's actually not (necessarily) true, because the card must complete the activation of its special ability before you can respond during special initiative. Cards like Invoking Terror and Unholy Writ have special abilities that remove themselves from play separate from the rest of their effect. This means that they will be out of play when special initiative occurs, and only an ITB or Interrupt/Negate Last work (obviously not on Writ) on this type of card.
That's the current ruling, and it is being discussed on the other side. Reference for my statements:
Q11) How do Negates work in regards to cost/benefit abilities that include removing the targeting card while granting special initiative?
A11) This question is currently under some debate. However, the current official rule is that you can't target Artifacts ala Unholy Writ with any negate card after use. That you can use an Interrupt the Battle/Negate Last to target an enhancement not in battle, and that you cannot use a general negate for the same purpose.
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Why would ITB work but not FbtN? That does not make sense.
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Because Negates default to play, ITB/Negte Last doesn't. It stops the last effect first.
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Hey Guys,
We've made a rule change/clarification for this situation.
Please refer to this thread (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/rule-changeclarification-negates/msg484710/#new) for more details.
Thanks,
John.
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Actually for the questions I asked, no you haven't.
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It's the exact same situation as Invoking Terror - End location simply doesn't matter. So yes - I have answered your questions.
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Actually for the questions I asked, no you haven't.
Actually, it does answer your original questions, even those were already answered and he was responding the rest of the thread (where similar discussions as other threads came about).
Even if Warden is going to be discarded by being */0, if his special ability causes special initiative, then it can be negated. And the new ruling allows targeted negates as well, regardless of when it should hit discard.
So yes. He did answer your questions. Perhaps if you still have one, you should actually spell it out so it can be answered.
EDIT: Whelp...he got in before me and said the same thing