Author Topic: Neb plus horses (Read 2927 times)

jbeers285 · « **on:** May 06, 2013, 05:41:36 PM »

So I am struggling to figure out y neb's search happens before a placed swift horses.

I get that neb is CBN (if condition is met) so horse wouldn't int but y does the weapon happen before the band with the dreaming pharaoh then?

Have I just heard this ruled incorrectly? Does neb d2 play before the search?

Redoubter · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2013, 06:08:24 PM »

The weapon always happens after the character's ability, EXCEPT when the ability would add characters to the battle (CTB, band, etc.). This is why the band on Dreaming Pharaoh happens last, but the search on Neb happens first.

CARDS WITH MULTIPLE SPECIAL ABILITIES

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2013, 07:38:50 PM »

ok got a question cause this happened vs josiah but if they play a card off one of the weapons that would kill or effect me do i get speciial initive to react b4 the band .

Redoubter · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2013, 08:55:34 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on May 06, 2013, 07:38:50 PM

ok got a question cause this happened vs josiah but if they play a card off one of the weapons that would kill or effect me do i get speciial initive to react b4 the band .

No. All SA, including any that those SA trigger, must complete before SI is taken. So in this case, the band (and anything else) completes and then, if possible, you can have SI to negate the removal.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2013, 10:45:29 AM »

I thought special initiative passed whenever the character in battle was being removed from battle? aka hero gets to play before the band?

jbeers285 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2013, 10:58:26 AM »

If the enhancement played off the weapon removes all of the hero's in battle i was under the understanding SI happens before the band. If the enhancement leaves character(s)in battle then the band continues before regular Inish is passed

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2013, 11:03:22 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on May 07, 2013, 10:45:29 AM

I thought special initiative passed whenever the character in battle was being removed from battle? aka hero gets to play before the band?

That is my understanding as well.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2013, 11:07:51 AM »

Ok to really through a wrench in this what happens if you are adding a character to battle of Nebs ability,

Which is something I do quite often.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2013, 11:45:17 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on May 07, 2013, 11:03:22 AM

Quote from: RTSmaniac on May 07, 2013, 10:45:29 AM
I thought special initiative passed whenever the character in battle was being removed from battle? aka hero gets to play before the band?

That is my understanding as well.

That is not my understanding. I have always assumed that the Hero has to wait until all other abilities complete before the player has a chance to interrupt. For example, if I block with Jezebel and Ahab, and I use Jezebel to remove an attacking Prophet, then use Ahab to play Gib Trick, the prophet never gets a chance to interrupt.

I assume that because Neb's search+add to battle is not explicitly a band, then it is able to happen first even if a character is added to battle. I have seen many players search for Nergal and add him to battle which would make the enhancement played off of horses CBN.

Noah · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2013, 12:08:47 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2013, 11:45:17 AM

For example, if I block with Jezebel and Ahab, and I use Jezebel to remove an attacking Prophet, then use Ahab to play Gib Trick, the prophet never gets a chance to interrupt.

At last years WI regional (Or was it state?) I did that exact same thing, I used Jezebel to remove Samuel, banded to Ahab who played Gib Trick but it was ruled my opponent could play Samuel's Edict to negate Jezebel before the play happened.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2013, 12:14:30 PM »

Sam negates play abilities so ahab doesn't get to play even Sam is removed his ability still took affect. Also of Sam was the only hero in battle they do get to play an enhancement first based on SI.

Josh · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2013, 12:31:07 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2013, 11:45:17 AM

That is not my understanding. I have always assumed that the Hero has to wait until all other abilities complete before the player has a chance to interrupt. For example, if I block with Jezebel and Ahab, and I use Jezebel to remove an attacking Prophet, then use Ahab to play Gib Trick, the prophet never gets a chance to interrupt.

I always thought this was how to play SI that arises in the middle of an ability. I don't understand how you can play an enhancement via SI when there is an ability being carried out that is not completed yet.

Noah · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2013, 12:32:43 PM »

Quote from: jbeers285 on May 07, 2013, 12:14:30 PM

Sam negates play abilities so ahab doesn't get to play even Sam is removed his ability still took affect. Also of Sam was the only hero in battle they do get to play an enhancement first based on SI.

Now that I think about it my opponent banded to David, so the question was whether or not he could play a gold enhancement and it was ruled he could.

Back on topic. I agree with this,

Quote

I have always assumed that the Hero has to wait until all other abilities complete before the player has a chance to interrupt.

What happens if you play Arrogance? Would your opponent get SI if you played a card that removed the hero, or would he have to wait till your done playing enhancements?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2013, 01:59:31 PM »

Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on May 07, 2013, 12:32:43 PM

Quote from: jbeers285 on May 07, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
Sam negates play abilities so ahab doesn't get to play even Sam is removed his ability still took affect. Also of Sam was the only hero in battle they do get to play an enhancement first based on SI.

Now that I think about it my opponent banded to David, so the question was whether or not he could play a gold enhancement and it was ruled he could.

That is now incorrect as well, but it was a recent ruling change/clairification, so it may have been before. The current rule is that SI only applies when all characters on one side of a battle are being removed from battle.

Quote

Quote
I have always assumed that the Hero has to wait until all other abilities complete before the player has a chance to interrupt.

What happens if you play Arrogance? Would your opponent get SI if you played a card that removed the hero, or would he have to wait till your done playing enhancements?

[/quote]

I have always assumed that he has to wait, but I don't think I've ever seen when it's been an issue, so I'm not sure if it has been ruled on in the past.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2013, 02:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2013, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on May 07, 2013, 12:32:43 PM
Quote from: jbeers285 on May 07, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
Sam negates play abilities so ahab doesn't get to play even Sam is removed his ability still took affect. Also of Sam was the only hero in battle they do get to play an enhancement first based on SI.

Now that I think about it my opponent banded to David, so the question was whether or not he could play a gold enhancement and it was ruled he could.

That is now incorrect as well, but it was a recent ruling change/clairification, so it may have been before. The current rule is that SI only applies when all characters on one side of a battle are being removed from battle.

I must have missed that ruling. Can you point me to a thread about that?

Kirk

jbeers285 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2013, 02:32:51 PM »

Quote from: Captain Kirk on May 07, 2013, 02:23:21 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2013, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on May 07, 2013, 12:32:43 PM
Quote from: jbeers285 on May 07, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
Sam negates play abilities so ahab doesn't get to play even Sam is removed his ability still took affect. Also of Sam was the only hero in battle they do get to play an enhancement first based on SI.

Now that I think about it my opponent banded to David, so the question was whether or not he could play a gold enhancement and it was ruled he could.

That is now incorrect as well, but it was a recent ruling change/clairification, so it may have been before. The current rule is that SI only applies when all characters on one side of a battle are being removed from battle.

I must have missed that ruling. Can you point me to a thread about that?

Kirk

If this is the case it greatly aids defense

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2013, 03:45:07 PM »

When I last asked about the Jezebel Ahab band combo the response was very much on the side that Special Initiative had to wait until after the band (and therefore the playing of the enhancement) was done and Ahab's ability to negate green enhancements is active.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2013, 03:51:23 PM »

Id also like to see the ruling The Prof mentioned.

Redoubter · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2013, 06:07:53 PM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on May 07, 2013, 03:51:23 PM

Id also like to see the ruling The Prof mentioned.

The ruling itself is somewhere on the boards, but it is buried in a post where a concise SI rule was requested. It did lead to an update in the REG, however, so it is official:

Quote

Special Initiative
When you are losing the battle by removal, you are granted special initiative to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate the card that is causing your character’s removal. You are considered to be losing by removal when an opponent’s special ability, or a game rule that has been triggered by an opponent’s special ability, would leave you with no character in battle when the special ability has completed.

Also, on the question of having to 'wait', it has been consistently ruled from my experiences (at tournaments and on the boards here) that all SA must complete, including any triggered abilities, before SI is granted. The reason is that no ability is ever complete until all components and triggered abilities are complete, just like an EC is not blocking until all SA on that character, their weapons, other cards banded in, triggered, etc. etc. complete.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2013, 12:24:28 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 07, 2013, 11:45:17 AM

I have always assumed that the Hero has to wait until all other abilities complete before the player has a chance to interrupt. For example, if I block with Jezebel and Ahab, and I use Jezebel to remove an attacking Prophet, then use Ahab to play Gib Trick, the prophet never gets a chance to interrupt.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 08, 2013, 12:48:15 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on May 07, 2013, 06:07:53 PM

Quote from: Jmbeers on May 07, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Id also like to see the ruling The Prof mentioned.

The ruling itself is somewhere on the boards, but it is buried in a post where a concise SI rule was requested. It did lead to an update in the REG, however, so it is official:

Quote
Special Initiative
When you are losing the battle by removal, you are granted special initiative to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate the card that is causing your character’s removal. You are considered to be losing by removal when an opponent’s special ability, or a game rule that has been triggered by an opponent’s special ability, would leave you with no character in battle when the special ability has completed.

Also, on the question of having to 'wait', it has been consistently ruled from my experiences (at tournaments and on the boards here) that all SA must complete, including any triggered abilities, before SI is granted. The reason is that no ability is ever complete until all components and triggered abilities are complete, just like an EC is not blocking until all SA on that character, their weapons, other cards banded in, triggered, etc. etc. complete.

So I enter with bel with horses play head of gold capture (x) (leaving no in battle) band to Ashpenaz and create convert one captured hero to crimson and play grapes on Ashpenaz an you get not chance to do anything?

Or same scenario I leave one hero in battle and slam him with CM. this giving you no chance to have si?

browarod · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »

For the second, yes that's correct. For the first, SI would override the ability to play Grapes so they'd get initiative before you could Grapes Ashpenaz.

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Author Topic: Neb plus horses (Read 2927 times)

browarod