Author Topic: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)  (Read 5458 times)

Offline RTSmaniac

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Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« on: January 12, 2011, 10:15:27 PM »
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Opponent activates Hidden Treasures and battle challenges with Micah(provisioned). Can he add Nazareth to battle and play Search(and search his deck)?

Because its a battle challenge, does it waste his use of Provisions?

Nazareth (Di)
Type: Site • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect cards in your territory and hand from shuffle by an opponent. Protect all decks from search abilities. • Identifiers: Jew • Verse: Matthew 13:57 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Hidden Treasures (FF)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck. • Play As: Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or search opponent's deck for an evil enhancement and discard it. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Obadiah 1:6 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers booster

Provisions (Ki)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set Hero aside for 2 turns. On return, holder may draw 2 cards and may choose the Evil Character his opponent's uses to block Hero's next rescue attempt. • Errata: Set aside Hero for 2 turns. On return, holder may draw 2 cards, and hero gains the special ability (for hero’s next rescue attempt only) “Holder may choose the Evil Character opponent uses to block” [choose opponent]. • Identifiers: OT, Connected with David • Verse: I Samuel 17:20 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)

This is the way Lackey gave it to me. All hail the power of Lackey!

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 10:19:11 PM »
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Well would Nazereth's ability work in battle. Probably not. So yes I would say.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 10:56:27 PM »
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No to both.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 10:59:06 PM »
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No to both.
I know that the second one is wrong(sorry didn't post that) but I thought that there was a discussion about how only multicolor sites work in battle and only single colored sites work in territory and that's that.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 11:00:34 PM »
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That's so, but the site would have to somehow enter battle before the Hero for its SA to turn off in time for searching to work.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 11:02:50 PM »
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Nazzy doesn't stop draw.

Can he add Nazareth to battle and play Search(and search his deck)?
---depends on when the site is added... I would have thought the site has to enter after the hero (and accompanying abilities complete), then hero's ability occurs, HT's ability, then add site

could be wrong though
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 11:06:30 PM »
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That's so, but the site would have to somehow enter battle before the Hero for its SA to turn off in time for searching to work.
I would think though that the site goes with the hero and then HT activates and he gets to play search to search his deck.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 11:09:31 PM »
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It depends on whether HT is triggered by the process of the Hero entering battle or by a Hero having entered battle. And now that you mention it, I'm not quite sure which it is.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 12:10:42 AM »
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Matt brought an interesting thought to my attention:

1) It says may, so therefore the entire ability is optional.
2) It only has a single condition, "if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle"
3) It never says WHEN before the trigger.

Therefore... why must you use it IMMEDIATELY when battle begins?

Furthermore, due to its condition, I would argue it works with banding. A single hero always enters first, even if he bands later. Therefore, the lone green brigade prophet was the first one in battle, and therefore started it by himself.

Example: Unknown Nation, Madness, and Go into Captivity are worded the same way, and can be used mid-battle, not ONLY when the trigger is met:

If your warrior class Evil Character is in battle, you may discard this card to capture a Hero.
If opponent's hero is in battle you may convert this card to an orange brigade Evil Character and add it to battle. Cannot be interrupted.
If opponent's Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to search draw pile for a human Evil Character and add it to battle.
If your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck.

Why is HT the only one that MUST activate immediately after its trigger is met?

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 12:21:22 AM »
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The only consistant rulings are that HT either must be used immediately after the lone hero enters battle and completes its abilities or it may be used at any time during the battle.

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 12:24:18 AM »
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Why is that? It's worded EXACTLY like the cards that can be activated manually, and therefore should work the same way.

If X is true, you may do Y.

Misread your post. I only see one consistent ruling here.

Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 12:31:08 AM »
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It wouldn't work with banding. The hero's special ability must complete before the artifact's begins. If we start allowing simultaneous special abilities, the game will be a mess. People can't even handle the simultaneous SoG+NJ without complaining
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Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 01:49:11 AM »
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BUMP FIX THIS NOW
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 02:53:10 AM »
+1
BUMP FIX THIS NOW

There's nothing to "fix" so stop yelling.

Sites are placed in battle with the Hero.
There was a discussion regarding this among the Elders and I believe we said that putting Nazareth in battle with a "search ability" Hero would work, so the same is true with HT.

Quote
Why is HT the only one that MUST activate immediately after its trigger is met?

I'm going to say it's because there's a choice (play or discard), and that choice must be made when it triggers.
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Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 02:56:04 AM »
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Once we have the specifics regarding Site abilities in battle nailed down, they will be added to the "Updated Rulings" thread.
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Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2011, 02:57:21 AM »
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ty ty ty so my trick did work  :P :P :P
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2011, 03:01:01 AM »
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Quote
we said that putting Nazareth in battle with a "search ability" Hero would work
Except that it doesn't. If Nazareth with a Search hero works, then I can SoG/NJ Shuffler and Thorns and shuffle the rest of the Souls.

The initial ruling on Nazareth and Search Heroes was one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time, but is inconsistent with other rulings that are exactly the same.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2011, 07:29:38 AM »
-6
EXCEPT POL YOUR WRONG THE SEARCH ABILITY IS NOT ON THE HERO THE SITE GOES IN BATTLE WITH MY HERO AS GUARDIAN HAS RULED DOES ITS THING THEN HIDDE N TREASURES WILL ALLOW ME TO USE THE CARD SEARCH AT CBN STATUS ON THE PROPHET WHO ENTERED THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS A HERO WITH A SEARCH ABILITY BUT SINCE THE SITE CAN FOLLOW THE HERO MY COMBO WORKS YOUR SOUL SITUATION IS DIFFRENT AND I NEED FINALITY ON THIS OR IM SCREWED PERMANATELY
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2011, 08:03:20 AM »
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EXCEPT POL YOUR WRONG THE SEARCH ABILITY IS NOT ON THE HERO THE SITE GOES IN BATTLE WITH MY HERO AS GUARDIAN HAS RULED DOES ITS THING THEN HIDDE N TREASURES WILL ALLOW ME TO USE THE CARD SEARCH AT CBN STATUS ON THE PROPHET WHO ENTERED THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS A HERO WITH A SEARCH ABILITY BUT SINCE THE SITE CAN FOLLOW THE HERO MY COMBO WORKS YOUR SOUL SITUATION IS DIFFRENT AND I NEED FINALITY ON THIS OR IM SCREWED PERMANATELY

He wasn't saying you were wrong, he was saying that the ruling the elders are considering (the one allowing  placing of Nazareth in battle with a "search ability" Hero to work) not your combo. 
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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2011, 08:29:41 AM »
-2
SO DOES MY PLAY WORK OR NOT YES OR NO HAVE TO FIND OUT IMMEDIATELY
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Offline Lawfuldog

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2011, 09:12:43 AM »
+2
Turning off CAPS lock and backing off of Pol for making a truthful statement would be a nice way to start. Your life is not going to end if you don't find out immediately. If you are in the middle of a game and are unsure of the ruling, flip a coin to see how you'll play it for that game and then find out the ruling later for future games.

For the record, I agree with Pol in this situation. Not only for consistency, but also it makes more sense in my mind that Nazareth and a "search hero" should not work. As for Hidden Treasure, it depends on how true what Lambo pointed out is.

Flip a coin for the time being, problem solved, calm down please.
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Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2011, 09:16:56 AM »
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no i won't just flip a coin i have a tourney im trying to attend coming up and i want a final answer b4 i spend money to a travel there and b finalize the real copy of my deck so i need both the time to purchase and recieve my cards as well as budget myself for the trip meaning i need this answer now theres no time to stall
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Offline Lawfuldog

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2011, 09:19:46 AM »
+1
Then it's not important for this question to be answered right this second. Be patient, you'll have your answer soon enough.
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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2011, 09:23:30 AM »
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Asking the host's opinion could help. An Elder already gave his opinion, and it is an opinion that other elders have expressed despite it making no sense (see Pol's point), so unless they change it before the tournament....

Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Nazzy+Search (with Hidden Treasures)
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2011, 09:26:10 AM »
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and thats why im pushing this thread so hard im simply trying not to waste my money by finishing a deck and showing up at a tourney to be ruled against if anybody understands the power of that in relations to combos you would sauce
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