Author Topic: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?  (Read 1360 times)

Offline Watchman

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Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« on: September 06, 2016, 08:26:48 AM »
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I'm sure this is a pretty basic question but I and someone else I know need clarification on this since this came up in a recent game we played.  I researched it and I'm still not quite sure I have the answer.

MKE:  "Interrupt the battle and set aside an opponent's male hero in play for 5 turns.  Then return the hero to owner's territory."

The REG says a Turn is this:

A turn begins with the Draw Phase and ends with the Discard Phase.  A player announces he is finished at the end of his turn.  Cards that say "per turn" or "for X turns" mean "for each of your turns" or "for X of your turns".

When the REG uses "for X of your turns", I believe it's assuming that when the wording "X turns" comes up in the SA of a card it's referring to the player who controls the card that the wording is on, such as Noah's Ark, since "your" refers to the controlling player.  But in the case of MKE where it says "for 5 turns," it's not the player's turn who played the card; it's his opponent's turn.  So if we go by the REG's definition of "for X of YOUR turns" then is MKE referring to MY turns (the one who played EE) or for my opponent's turns, or for both of our turns combined?

If I were to rule this based upon my current understanding I would say that when MKE sets aside my opponent's hero, a 1 counter is now placed on that hero since it's still my opponent's turn.  When my opponent (not me, and not me and him) reaches HIS 5th turn, the hero would now come back to my opponent's territory. 

I may have overly complicated this, but I think this explanation will help you understand why I need clarification.

Thanks. 
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 08:53:19 AM »
+2
Duration always advances on the upkeep phase of the permanent controller of a card with a duration. In your scenario, the first tick will happen on your opponent's next upkeep phase and will complete on his fifth.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Watchman

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 11:21:00 AM »
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Duration always advances on the upkeep phase of the permanent controller of a card with a duration. In your scenario, the first tick will happen on your opponent's next upkeep phase and will complete on his fifth.

So the first tick doesn't happen as soon as the hero is set aside? I was told in times past that the first tick occurs right then and not during my opponent's next upkeep phase.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 11:59:21 AM »
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Pol is accurate. The first "tick" happens during the upkeep phase.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 12:03:54 PM »
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Roger that. Thanks guys.
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Offline jesse

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 11:09:33 PM »
+1
On a related note, does discard phase of turn 1 to draw phase of turn 2 count as 1 turn for cards such as Pentecost, Passover & Unleavened Bread, etc? Like you can just set your heroes aside at the end of your turn during discard phase and then on your next turn get them back during upkeep and gain the benefit?
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 04:03:40 AM »
+2
On a related note, does discard phase of turn 1 to draw phase of turn 2 count as 1 turn for cards such as Pentecost, Passover & Unleavened Bread, etc? Like you can just set your heroes aside at the end of your turn during discard phase and then on your next turn get them back during upkeep and gain the benefit?

I've always seen that work too.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 08:40:33 AM »
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That is correct. Turns are counted on your upkeep. It doesn't matter when the card gets set-aside.

Other examples of "quick turns" are Pretention on your Hero during your opponents discard phase. Or the "shame" Lost Soul sets aside Heroes during your draw phase (next is upkeep so it's 1 turn already for your Hero).
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Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 08:48:30 AM »
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That is correct. Turns are counted on your upkeep. It doesn't matter when the card gets set-aside.

Other examples of "quick turns" are Pretention on your Hero during your opponents discard phase. Or the "shame" Lost Soul sets aside Heroes during your draw phase (next is upkeep so it's 1 turn already for your Hero).

So you could block with your rehoboam, and use Pentecost in the side battle to get your heroes back at the beginning of your turn?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 09:09:21 AM »
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Correct.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Watchman

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 09:37:20 AM »
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On a related note, does discard phase of turn 1 to draw phase of turn 2 count as 1 turn for cards such as Pentecost, Passover & Unleavened Bread, etc? Like you can just set your heroes aside at the end of your turn during discard phase and then on your next turn get them back during upkeep and gain the benefit?

This is what I was referring to when I said that in times past, and how I've been playing it, that the first counter is placed on the set aside character. I know the cards Jesse is referring to have SA of setting aside for only one turn, but wouldn't this be the same situation as if it were for 5 turns?

Gabe and MP, when you guys said the first "tick" occurs on my opponent's next upkeep phase, are you saying the counter moves to the next number (when you said "tick" I was thinking tick was referring to the first number placed on the hero)? For example, MKE sets aside my opponent's hero. At this point, if my opponent is using a die as a counter, would he place the 1 side of the die on the hero, and then during his next upkeep phase he "ticks" (or moves) it to the 2 side? If this is correct then this is how I've been playing it.
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browarod

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 10:15:03 AM »
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There are 2 common ways to keep track of turn counts (whether set aside or turns-in-play, such as Seven Years of Plenty):
1. Putting a die with a face value, or a number of counters, equal to how many turns the character will be set aside. When the die would be turned to 0, or you remove the last counter, the set aside effect is done.
2. Using a die, or a number of counters, to count up the number of turns that have passed. In this case you wouldn't put the die or any counters on the card until the first time it "ticks" which would be the controller's next upkeep phase. When the die, or counters, equal the set aside's duration the set aside effect ends.

In both cases, nothing "ticks" until the card's controller's first Upkeep Phase after the set aside ability is activated. Hopefully that makes sense.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 10:28:44 AM »
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+1
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Moses Kills Egyptian - Whose 5 turns?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 11:18:50 AM »
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There are 2 common ways to keep track of turn counts (whether set aside or turns-in-play, such as Seven Years of Plenty):
1. Putting a die with a face value, or a number of counters, equal to how many turns the character will be set aside. When the die would be turned to 0, or you remove the last counter, the set aside effect is done.
2. Using a die, or a number of counters, to count up the number of turns that have passed. In this case you wouldn't put the die or any counters on the card until the first time it "ticks" which would be the controller's next upkeep phase. When the die, or counters, equal the set aside's duration the set aside effect ends.

In both cases, nothing "ticks" until the card's controller's first Upkeep Phase after the set aside ability is activated. Hopefully that makes sense.

It does make sense. That was what was confusing me: when the die/counter is placed on the set aside hero and counts as its first turn.

Thanks.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

 


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