Author Topic: Moses Getting banded into battle (Read 2030 times)

DrowningFish · « **on:** May 27, 2014, 04:39:09 PM »

Simeon (band to any good prophet) band to Angel with the secret name (search for gold judge and exchange) he gets kicked out of battle right? And the ability stays?

Drrek · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2014, 04:50:21 PM »

No Moses does not get kicked out of battle. Angel with the Secret name makes all good Judges cards CBN, which includes himself. As such the exchange to Moses cannot be negated, so Moses stays in battle with Simeon.

yirgogo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »

Question though, isn't simeon a Luke card?

Drrek · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2014, 05:02:18 PM »

Quote from: yirgogo on May 27, 2014, 04:54:54 PM

Question though, isn't simeon a Luke card?

That doesn't matter. Angel with the Secret Name is a judges card, so Angel with the Secret Name is CBN. His exchange cannot ever be undone, not even indirectly.

yirgogo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2014, 05:11:15 PM »

But wouldn't Simeon be banded to AwsN, and than be banded to moses? The exchange would happen, and would be CBN, but what about the band?
I guess this depends on what Exchange means. Does it mean:
1. The card that was in battle and exchanged is kicked out, and the new hero is brought into battle, and the affects on the first card would not transfer to the second card.
or 2. The heroes just switch places, and all affects on the first hero (ie. Banding) transfer to the second hero and it is just as if the affects that were normally targeted on the first card are like they were interrupted, and than just the same.

I have played normally with the second one, but what does the REG say?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2014, 06:11:47 PM »

I'm inclined to agree with yirgogo. The exchange cannot be undone, but the band can be. I know that I would have ruled that Moses goes back to wherever the angel came from, and Simeon would be alone in a FBTN battle (except that Judges cards would be CBN). There is no "indirect" negation of the exchange, since the angel stays wherever Moses came from (hand, territory, deck or discard pile).

Drrek · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2014, 06:13:41 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on May 27, 2014, 06:11:47 PM

I'm inclined to agree with yirgogo. The exchange cannot be undone, but the band can be. I know that I would have ruled that Moses goes back to wherever the angel came from, and Simeon would be alone in a FBTN battle (except that Judges cards would be CBN). There is no "indirect" negation of the exchange, since the angel stays wherever Moses came from (hand, territory, deck or discard pile).

Well Simeon - Oak - Moses has been ruled to keep both Simeon and Moses in battle, so while I can see the logic that would lead one to think Moses to be kicked out of battle, we know that the ruling is that Moses stays.

Redoubter · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2014, 06:27:57 PM »

Couple of things to clarify:

1. Moses is not banded into battle, as exchange =/= band.
2. AwSN was brought into battle by a band, but that was the end of the band. Any characters added to battle by AwSN were not done by the band directly, that was done by the ability on AwSN.
3. AwSN is CBN. No matter what, that ALWAYS stays. AwSN added Moses to battle, and that add is CBN.

So to reiterate, there is no 'exchanged who is banded' as banding is an instant ability that just brings in one character here. It can be negated to cascade anything that happened afterwards, but anything that is CBN or CBI sticks regardless.

The Simeon/Jacob->AwSN/AutO->Moses band works as ruled.

yirgogo · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2014, 06:30:11 PM »

Than if an Angel was getting discarded during battle, could you play Swift Beings, and than Wings to exchange the angels and protect the rescue attempt from failing?

Praeceps · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2014, 06:55:51 PM »

I think you are getting wings confused with another card as wings only protects from capture, poison, and disease.

Wings - Place this card on an angel. While this card remains, that Hero is protected from capture, poison, and disease.

Now if the angel in battle was being captured, poisoned, or diseased then your idea would work just fine as long as you had the initiative to interrupt the battle with swift beings.

As far as your initial idea of interrupting and exchanging, it would work if the discard said "discard a hero in battle" (although I think that when the interrupt and switch finished it would then discard the new hero in battle)but if the discard was a "discard a hero in play" then the original angel would still be discarded as he is still in play, he's just moved to territory.

Redoubter · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2014, 07:09:53 PM »

Quote from: yirgogo on May 27, 2014, 06:30:11 PM

Than if an Angel was getting discarded during battle, could you play Swift Beings, and than Wings to exchange the angels and protect the rescue attempt from failing?

On that thought in general, there is an exchange of targeting, you are correct, but banding is no longer targeting (it is completed):

Quote from: The REG

In addition to switching locations, if either of the cards is targeted by other abilities when the exchange is carried out, the targets of those other abilities are also switched.

The band is an instant ability that completed by the time the exchange takes place, so there is nothing about 'Simeon/Jacob banding to Moses'. That card banded to AwSN, not Moses, and it is completed. In a type of situation you attempt to describe, the target of the ability would be the exchanged character at the end, since the original character "is targeted...when the exchange is carried out."

Hopefully that makes sense.

yirgogo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2014, 07:22:47 PM »

Okay, that makes sense, I believe that the card I was thinking of was an Angel Wars card, Silver Enhancement: Exchange this hero with a hero in territory or in Chamber of Angels.

Chris · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2014, 07:24:39 PM »

Wizards. Wizards and magic are the reason Moses works this way.

DrowningFish · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2014, 08:09:37 PM »

I know I'm.a.little late but the reason I asked with AWTSN is a prophet I didn't think auto was.

Drrek · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2014, 08:19:36 PM »

Quote from: DrowningFish on May 27, 2014, 08:09:37 PM

I know I'm.a.little late but the reason I asked with AWTSN is a prophet I didn't think auto was.

AUTO was a prophet, ooh ooh!

SignoftheStar · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2014, 09:04:30 PM »

Quote from: yirgogo on May 27, 2014, 07:22:47 PM

Okay, that makes sense, I believe that the card I was thinking of was an Angel Wars card, Silver Enhancement: Exchange this hero with a hero in territory or in Chamber of Angels.

Winds. The card you want is Winds.

yirgogo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2014, 09:07:34 PM »

Yeah, thanks!

LukeChips · « **Reply #17 on:** May 30, 2014, 04:20:00 PM »

Doesn't moses get kicked out of battle?

Redoubter · « **Reply #18 on:** May 30, 2014, 05:38:25 PM »

Reread the whole thread, and you'll see that he is not kicked out because CBN is CBN. The ability that puts him in battle sticks no matter what.

LukeChips · « **Reply #19 on:** June 02, 2014, 04:09:50 PM »

Ok, thanks.

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Author Topic: Moses Getting banded into battle (Read 2030 times)

Chris

LukeChips

LukeChips