Author Topic: Moses can fly? (Read 5555 times)

SomeKittens · « **on:** October 24, 2010, 06:01:36 PM »

RA with Elijah, blocked by evil gold character. Elijah plays Reach, passes play next. Gold EC plays Outburst of Anger (Hero is returned to owners hand. A new Hero must be placed in battle or rescue attempt fails.
I play Moses from hand.

What happens? We played it as Moses negates OoA, Elijah comes back (w/ Reach), and the battle is now FbtN. (including Reach, the three cards are placed on deck)

The M · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2010, 06:03:09 PM »

I think it is FBTN, but INE.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2010, 06:04:38 PM »

I believe you played that correctly.

The Guardian · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2010, 06:22:35 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on October 24, 2010, 06:04:38 PM

I believe you played that correctly.

Master KChief · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2010, 07:01:39 PM »

did moses return to hand?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2010, 08:41:47 PM »

I would say moses does not return to hand because you cant unplay a card. I would rule he goes to territory.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2010, 08:43:45 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on October 24, 2010, 07:01:39 PM

did moses return to hand?

Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 24, 2010, 08:41:47 PM

I would say moses does not return to hand because you cant unplay a card. I would rule he goes to territory.

We played he went to territory.

Korunks · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2010, 09:31:18 AM »

Quote

I would say moses does not return to hand because you cant unplay a card. I would rule he goes to territory.

I believe this incorrect, when an ability is negated it is like it never happened. The FBTN sticks because you cannot unplay the card, but moses returns to hand because of the negate. Because the ability that pulled him from hand was negated.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2010, 04:41:15 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on October 25, 2010, 09:31:18 AM

Quote
I would say moses does not return to hand because you cant unplay a card. I would rule he goes to territory.

I believe this incorrect, when an ability is negated it is like it never happened. The FBTN sticks because you cannot unplay the card, but moses returns to hand because of the negate. Becasue the ability that pulled him from hand was negated.

that is how i would have ruled it.....

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2010, 11:44:18 PM »

Im not sure how relevent it is, so...

I block with King Amon get Foolish Advise from discard pile and play it. Where does foolish advise go since i negated my ability?

Ammian · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2010, 12:04:59 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on October 25, 2010, 11:44:18 PM

Im not sure how relevent it is, so...

I block with King Amon get Foolish Advise from discard pile and play it. Where does foolish advise go since i negated my ability?

Your ability is not an actively transpiring one; it already happened. It was not interrupted, and thus it cannot be undone. If it was still in the process of happening, it would be undone. But it is not. It happened when you sent him out, before any enhancements were being played or considered.

Hey look, I can answer questions too!

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2010, 04:18:24 AM »

Eh, no you can't.

Foolish Advice isn't CBN, so it doesn't stick to the table. You end up with Amon in a FbtN battle with Foolish Advice in your Discard pile.

Korunks · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2010, 10:01:22 AM »

Quote

Foolish Advice isn't CBN, so it doesn't stick to the table. You end up with Amon in a FbtN battle with Foolish Advice in your Discard pile.

Similarly Outburst of Anger is not CBN so it does not cause Moses to stick to the table. Therefore you end up with Elijah vs the Gold EC in a FBTN battle with a negated reach on Elijah, and Moses chillin in your hand.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »

Korunks, you just said Moses sticks to the table and Moses chills in your hand. Which do you mean?

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2010, 10:56:16 AM »

I believe he meant to type "not"

Korunks · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2010, 10:56:21 AM »

Sorry, I typed to fast and left off the not.

Ammian · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2010, 02:34:02 PM »

The whole Moses chillin' in your hand deal makes sense. I guess he can fly. Pretty sweet.

→About the Foolish Advice: it doesn't negate itself. It says, "except this one" ...why would it end up in the discard pile?
→Besides, actions can only be interrupted if they're not complete yet. Unless you were playing foolish advice as an interrupt to your own ability ...but that would only work if Amon's ability activating was the last thing that happened, and that only applies if the game automatically considers Amon's ability to still be in motion (that is, incomplete). If the opponent played a non-interrupt card, that would begin a new action, thus requiring (by definition) that Amon's action be complete. Remember, interrupt works backward and prevent works forward. You can't prevent an action that was completed in the past - only one that is still transpiring (and was interrupted) or will transpire; you can only prevent future actions or currently transpiring actions that have been interrupted.

At least that's what I gather.

-Ammian

Korunks · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2010, 02:45:05 PM »

Quote

→About the Foolish Advice: it doesn't negate itself. It says, "except this one" ...why would it end up in the discard pile?

But it negates Amon's ability which is what brought it out from the discard pile. So it negates its own returns so it must go back.

Quote

→Besides, actions can only be interrupted if they're not complete yet.

Thats not true nothing can stop an ability midstride. All abilities must be completed before they can be interrupted or negated.

Quote

Unless you were playing foolish advice as an interrupt to your own ability ...but that would only work if Amon's ability activating was the last thing that happened, and that only applies if the game automatically considers Amon's ability to still be in motion (that is, incomplete). If the opponent played a non-interrupt card, that would begin a new action, thus requiring (by definition) that Amon's action be complete.

Umm not quite. Amon's ability completes and Foolish advice hits play, it interrupts all abilities and prevents them, including the one that brought it into play.

Quote

Remember, interrupt works backward and prevent works forward. You can't prevent an action that was completed in the past - only one that is still transpiring (and was interrupted) or will transpire; you can only prevent future actions or currently transpiring actions that have been interrupted.

Thats is not correct Interrupt and prevent work together. Interrupt goes back, and then the prevent stops everything forward.

Hope this helps

The M · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2010, 05:11:59 PM »

Prevent = "after" or "next whatever played"

Example = Preemptive Strike prevents (neutralizes) Courage, which was played after Preemptive Strike.

Interrupt = "before or "previous whatever played"

Example = Achan's Sin interrupts (neutralizes) Fishers of Men, which was played before Achan's Sin.

Clears things up?

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on October 26, 2010, 02:45:05 PM

Quote
→About the Foolish Advice: it doesn't negate itself. It says, "except this one" ...why would it end up in the discard pile?

But it negates Amon's ability which is what brought it out from the discard pile. So it negates its own returns so it must go back.

I don't think that's right. If I play Reach and draw into AoC (not promo) and then play that as my "play an enhancement", if you interrupt and negate drawing abilities, I put the other two cards back but not AoC since it's now in play and nothing can negate the playing of a card.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #20 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:28:01 PM »

hmmm....

adotson85 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:29:07 PM »

Broward is correct. AoC would stay since it has already been played.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:49:21 PM »

Quote from: adotson85 on October 26, 2010, 07:29:07 PM

Broward is correct. AoC would stay since it has already been played.

i don't believe so since it can be negated.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:50:16 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on October 26, 2010, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: adotson85 on October 26, 2010, 07:29:07 PM
Broward is correct. AoC would stay since it has already been played.
i don't believe so since it can be negated.

that was my thinking

adotson85 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:19:48 PM »

Yes AoC can be negated, but the playing of AoC can not be negated. I am 100% sure of this.

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Author Topic: Moses can fly? (Read 5555 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

browarod