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Twice Afflicted is preventing the effect, not the card.

Of course, where the old REG might be interpreted both ways the new REG clears it up completely.

In your example, based on the new REG Moses WOULD prevent the heroes from discard.

Well I'll just say I completely disagree with that ruling.

Allow me to jump in and say this is news to me as well. I thought prevent only worked if you PHYSICALLY played it before the card you are trying to prevent.

That can't be true.  If I interrupt and prevent a card, then I interrupt a card, and then prevent it.  That's right, I prevent an ability on a card that was already played.

Delayed triggers have two parts: the trigger (which we all agree is activated when it is played), and the ability that kicks in when the trigger is pulled.

The question here is less about prevent, and more about whether that "ability that kicks in when the trigger is pulled" is considered "pending."  It sure seems like it to me.

I thought interrupt essentially made it like those cards were not even played?

Yeah, interrupt basically says, "Okay, put these cards in Limbo for a sec while I do some other stuff. ... Okay, go ahead and put them back down now."

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 26, 2010, 11:22:06 AM

Am I missing something?

 

That was helpful.

I cannot help those who do not wish to be helped.

I would love to be helped. I am extremely confused.

Interrupt does not unplay the Card.  It pauses an Ability and delays its application, making it "pending."

It seems to me that a triggered ability is doing a similar thing: making the other part of the ability "pending."

If I can prevent an ability that is pending by an interrupt, then can't I prevent an ability that is pending by a trigger?

As Gabe mentioned, I'd like to hear Tim Maly's ideas on this.

Yeah... I'm still very opposed to the idea of a Cannot be Interrupted ability being stopped after it has been played. (A CBI Great Image vs a banded in Moses)

Remind me again, how was CBP nerfed?

Ahhh I remember now.

Why don't we just make CBI/CBP/CBN statuses more like an abilifier that you cant negate in any way?

Hey,

Discussion on the private side of the message board has led to the following solution/explanation:

A pending ability is an ability that has started the process of going into effect but has not completed that process.  (Similar to battle resolution, the process of a card going into effect is technically instantaneous but practically still has multiple stages).  Usually an ability starts the process of going into effect and then immediately completes it, so it is a pending ability for a negligible (or you could even argue non-existent) period of time.

There are three reasons that an ability could end up being a pending ability for a significant amount of time:

(1) Multiple abilities activate together.  This is the classic order of operations issue.  A hero with multiple abilities enters battle, all of those abilities are then activated, but they have to be carried out one at a time.  The order of operations says which one is carried out first.  All of the abilities on the card that are not activated first become pending abilities until the first ability is carried out.  Once the first ability is done the game looks at all of the pending abilities, decides which one happens next and carries it out; repeating this process until there are no remaining pending abilities to carry out.

(2) An ability is interrupted.  Interrupting an ability undoes the completion of the ability, "pauses" the ability at a point before it is completed and inserts some other effect.  At the point when the ability is "paused" it is a pending ability, we undid the carrying out part (so the ability is waiting to re-do the carrying out part) but we didn't undo the fact that the card activated.  Once the "some other effect" is inserted we go back to the interrupted ability (the pending ability) and re-complete it (if possible).

(3) An ability has a trigger.  When you play an ability with a trigger it activates immediately, but you can't complete it until the trigger is satisfied.  The trigger forces the ability to sit as a pending ability ("in limbo" if you will) until the trigger happens, at which point the ability ceases to be a pending ability and is carried out.

As the new REG definition of prevent says you can prevent an ability that is pending.  If you use Tower on Messenger of Satan when he enters battle the banding ability becomes pending and the prevent ability from Tower kicks in which then stops the banding ability from happening.  If my opponent plays Achan's Sin, I can play Battle Cry to band in Shamhuth which results in Battle Cry interrupting Achan's Sin, making Achan's Sin pending and then while Achan's Sin is pending Shamhuth prevents it (this is how all interrupt and prevent abilities end up effectively negating things).

And the example that is applicable here, Momentum change has a triggered ability making it a pending ability until the end of battle so Twice Afflicted can be played during battle to prevent it.

While this is a new REG concept it doesn't conflict with any current REG statements so this should be considered to be effective immediately.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Hey,

If an interrupted ability is treated the same way as a triggered ability in that they are both "pending"... then Devourer shouldn't negate anything. If I play Aarons Rod to simply discard Great Image, my heroes are still discarded at the end of the battle right? Why would interrupting (now read as: causing an ability to be pending) and discarding be any different?

You should read the interrupt entry of the new REG.  While interrupted and yet to be triggered abilities are both pending, they resolve out of the pending state in different ways.  Abilities that are pending because of triggers or order of operations went through a "is playable" check right before they became pending, and thus they do not have to pass the check when they leave the pending state.  Abilities that are pending because they were interrupted do not go through a "is playable" check right before they became pending abilities and instead face that check when they leave the pending state.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The answer to your question is yes.  People take the term to mean something other than what it means.  In doing so, they create their own contradictions.

I also remember reading somewhere that end the battle abilities stop pending abilities (I think it was in relation to the archers, horses, Forgotten History scenario).  In the past if I played Great Image and then played Forgotten History, Great Image would still work but if it is now pending like interrupted abilities then will it be stopped?  This does not seem right.