Author Topic: Momentum Change/ Just a Hireling (Read 10840 times)

Mr.Hiatus · « **on:** May 23, 2010, 05:07:54 PM »

I am sure this was brought up, but I didn't see it. If a hero rescues against me and I block with a gray EC, play Momentum Change (return all evil enhancements except this one to holder's hand if evil character loses in battle), then play Just a Hireling ( discard your sadducee or pharisee to shuffle up to three lost souls into deck) then I die, to I get my Just a Hireling back?

Master KChief · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:09:24 PM »

i see no reason why you wouldnt get it back.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:16:11 PM »

Just a Hireling causes your EC to lose the battle (even if it has become a battle challenge) so yes, you get JaH back.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:40:22 PM »

Sweet, that's pretty awesome. Thanks guys.

The Schaef · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:53:15 PM »

* The Schaef hopes they don't also think about Pride of Simon and Twice Afflicted.

.... er, I mean... oops.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:57:40 PM »

Making your text white just makes it even EASIER for people using Metallistic to see.

The Warrior · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2010, 06:00:32 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 23, 2010, 05:57:40 PM

Making your text white just makes it even EASIER for people using Metallistic to see.

Bah. Metallic. Humbug

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2010, 06:09:10 PM »

Warrior go get your post count up somewhere else, besides you do know you already got 5 stars... why keep posting unnecessarily? Anyway, Twice Afflicted is only on demons, which is good but I'd rather do Romans or all Pharisees. Pride of Simon is black, same thing goes.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2010, 06:11:51 PM »

Just use Sadds and Pharisees together, and throw in a Lying Spirit or maybe even a Shadow to play Twice Afflicted on.

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2010, 06:17:02 PM »

I tend to favor Lying Spirit because I have more banding options. As long as I get him out one time to use 2A, and have a Sad in territory to discard, I'm good. Then I use Doctrine to bring the Sads back from the grave.

It's still not an A-level deck, but my Sads defense that plays Hireling up to four times is still probably my strongest deck.

adotson85 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:45:56 AM »

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on May 23, 2010, 05:07:54 PM

I am sure this was brought up, but I didn't see it. If a hero rescues against me and I block with a gray EC, play Momentum Change (return all evil enhancements except this one to holder's hand if evil character loses in battle), then play Just a Hireling ( discard your sadducee or pharisee to shuffle up to three lost souls into deck) then I die, to I get my Just a Hireling back?

Say you block as described above. Then next turn you block with Lying Spirit and have Just a Hireling in hand. You play twice afflicted to play momentum change then play just a hireling to discard a pharisee in territory. Does the second part of twice afflicted that prevents return to hand abilities stop momentum changes ability to return.

Just a Hireling
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black/Gray • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard your Sadducee or Pharisee to shuffle up to three Lost Souls into deck. • Identifiers: None • Verse: John 10:12 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 18)

Twice Afflicted
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a demon, search discard pile for a gray brigade enhancement and play it. Prevent all special abilities that return cards to a player's hand. • Identifiers: NT, Connected with Demons • Verse: Luke 11:26 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Common)

Momentum Change
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Return all Evil Enhancements except this one to holder's hand if Evil Character loses in battle. • Play As: Return all Evil Enhancements in this battle that were used by this Evil Character except this one to holder's hand if Evil Character loses in battle.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:50:12 AM »

Yes, unless you use Namaan or an effective Asherah Pole.

adotson85 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2010, 02:00:20 AM »

I ask because the first part of the ability allows you to play momentum change and the second part prevents the return to hand ability. So is momentum change played before the second part of the SA completes? Basically I want to know what activates first, the playing of momentum change or the second part of twice afflicted's SA.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2010, 03:16:52 AM »

Ooooooh, I see what you're saying now. Actually yes, since abilities activate in the order they are printed, Momentum Change would already have been activated in battle before the Prevent kicks in!

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2010, 03:19:43 AM »

I know it's been ruled that It doesn't work in the past - I'll see if I can find a thread.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2010, 03:23:36 AM »

Maybe it was ruled that way, but clearly it was an oversight. A reading of the card gives the obvious answer, so unless the Play As is wrong, any other ruling is wrong.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2010, 03:25:23 AM »

Ok, so I couldn't find a thread - But the logic is thus:

Momentum Change is an ongoing trigger - So when Twice Afflicted is played it's prevent sits there, then negates MC when it tries to trigger.

adotson85 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2010, 03:33:14 AM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 24, 2010, 03:25:23 AM

Ok, so I couldn't find a thread - But the logic is thus:

Momentum Change is an ongoing trigger - So when Twice Afflicted is played it's prevent sits there, then negates MC when it tries to trigger.

I could not find a thread either. I am hoping the combo works. However, I could make it work with APole or just band Lying spirit to Naaman.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:14:05 AM »

That seems to contradict what we're always told about Prevent only stopping things that happen after the prevent activates. If I play Great Image and you play something that Prevents an EE, would your Heroes die after battle?

Master KChief · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:20:25 AM »

i can see what rdt is saying with ongoing, but im more inclined to agree with pol because prevents have to be in place before the ability to stop the ability.

Gabe · « **Reply #20 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:49:58 AM »

If Momentum Change is played first, then Twice Afflicted is played after, I believe that Momentum Change will be able return Evil Enhancements.

Quote from: REG > Ongoing Abilities > Prevent > How to Play

Prevent is a special ability used to preempt (stop) a future card’s special ability. Prevent does not stop cards that have already taken effect.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:20:49 AM »

I disagree. Momentum Change is not an ability that returns a card to a player's hand until the EC loses, and by that time Twice Afflicted has kicked in. A similar situation would be if there was a card that said: "Discard of heroes is prevented this turn" and it was played after Great Image. No hero had yet been discarded by Great Image, but by Pol's logic, they still would be at the end of turn.

Of course, I would not be sad at the possibilities if what Pol said is true, I just can't logically justify it.

Bryon · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:26:10 AM »

Twice Afflicted got its second sentence in playtesting specifically to disallow its combination with Momentum Change.

That said, Twice Afflicted should have used the word "negate" rather than "prevent" if even to avoid this question. Since it says "prevent" I can see both sides of the argument, and am not certain which is the correct asnwer.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:18:06 PM »

Since it is says prevent, and the prevent comes after Momentum Change, then your enhancements return. If Momentum Change is played after Twice Afflicted, then you do not get your enhancements back. But I do not see this being a big problem, as the smallest demon in gray brigade is a 4/3 I believe, and Twice Afflicted is a 2/4 or something, so you would pass initiative almost every time. Seems like a nice side combo, but nothing to errata. Unless Haggai is in battle and played Meal in Emmaus and activates HHI and is ignored! Just kidding, calm down everyone.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:23:35 PM »

But that all depends on which card is doing the preventing? Is Twice Afflicted granting the prevent power to Momentum change, or Lying spirit? If Lying spirit gained this ability, and all copies of Lying spirit were removed from play, wouldnt that mean that prevent ability would stop working, and therefore momentum change could enter battle without being prevented?

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Author Topic: Momentum Change/ Just a Hireling (Read 10840 times)

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo