Author Topic: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules (Read 1433 times)

Reth · « **on:** June 02, 2014, 04:00:31 PM »

Hi there,

do not remember the correct constellation during battle but defense startet with Nabal and a good card was drawn. So Nabal has to be discarded after batlle anyway.
Unfortunately I lost the battle against an enhancement which made Nabal to be shuffled into deck (or to be underdecked - do not remember).

So which ability is winning then? The discarding of Nabal due to his own ability or the ability of the enhancement which brings him back into the deck?

Many thanks in advance!

Bye

LukeChips · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2014, 04:04:49 PM »

I would say the discarding of nabal because that came into play first, but I'm not positive, very good question Reth.

DDiceRC · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2014, 04:34:03 PM »

I'd say the shuffle/underdeck ability, since Nabal isn't losing until he's in deck, and once he's in the deck I don't think he can be discarded from there.

LukeChips · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2014, 06:03:40 PM »

I stand corrected.

Redoubter · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2014, 06:09:58 PM »

This one is interesting, but I would rule that whatever defeated him (generally) happens. This is, IMO, different from the ruling that Assyrian Survivor is an instead. In that case, Survivor refers to the act of defeating. In this case, Nabal refers to the ending of the battle. That is the only time that the 'instead' on his ability works.

If he is removed from battle before it 'ends' then he cannot be targeted by this discard. However, if he is still in play when the battle ends, then his ability discards him.

The Guardian · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2014, 06:18:18 PM »

Reth · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2014, 07:02:17 AM »

Thanks to all so far!

Quote from: Redoubter on June 02, 2014, 06:09:58 PM

This one is interesting, but I would rule that whatever defeated him (generally) happens. This is, IMO, different from the ruling that Assyrian Survivor is an instead. In that case, Survivor refers to the act of defeating. In this case, Nabal refers to the ending of the battle. That is the only time that the 'instead' on his ability works.

If he is removed from battle before it 'ends' then he cannot be targeted by this discard. However, if he is still in play when the battle ends, then his ability discards him.

Need to check this "instead"-thing, didn't get a clue out of it yet referring this situation.

I understand your point. But in this case he is underdecked and he was the only EC in battle. So does underdecking him end the battle then? If so I'd like to raise my question again.

_JM_ · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2014, 07:50:13 AM »

Quote from: Reth on June 04, 2014, 07:02:17 AM

Thanks to all so far!

Quote from: Redoubter on June 02, 2014, 06:09:58 PM
This one is interesting, but I would rule that whatever defeated him (generally) happens. This is, IMO, different from the ruling that Assyrian Survivor is an instead. In that case, Survivor refers to the act of defeating. In this case, Nabal refers to the ending of the battle. That is the only time that the 'instead' on his ability works.

If he is removed from battle before it 'ends' then he cannot be targeted by this discard. However, if he is still in play when the battle ends, then his ability discards him.
Need to check this "instead"-thing, didn't get a clue out of it yet referring this situation.

I understand your point. But in this case he is underdecked and he was the only EC in battle. So does underdecking him end the battle then? If so I'd like to raise my question again.

Nabal's ability sets up an end-of-battle trigger to discard himself if a good card is drawn. In order for that trigger to fire completely, Nabal must be in play at the end of battle. In your scenario, he has been sent back to the deck by the time the battle ends (all abilities must complete before the battle ends). His trigger will attempt to discard him, but cannot since he is no longer in the field of play (this is where all abilities default to targeting).

Reth · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2014, 12:43:23 PM »

@_JM_ and all others:

Thanks for the detailed clarification! Great responses!

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Author Topic: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules (Read 1433 times)

Reth

Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

LukeChips

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

DDiceRC

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

LukeChips

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

Redoubter

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

The Guardian

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

Reth

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

_JM_

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules

Reth

Re: Nabal draws good card + looses against underdeck ability - which one rules