Cactus Game Design Message Boards

So, how would you have ruled 2kh on Assyrian Archer then?

Would you say AS plays before Assyrian Archer can band?

It was faulty.

this is no different than the errata to make "add a second (character) to battle" simple mean "band a (character) into battle." Or would you rather we allow those cards to ONLY work if there's only one (characteR) in battle when they're played?

If Play first WC enhs bug you that much, add a purple splash with coat of mail.

To me, it is more disappointing that battles are won before initiative is ever determined.

purple splash with coat of mail.

Making my point that it wouldn't be mono silver.  Besides, that's not even the best counter for this new problem that silver has inherited because of this redefining.

Or I Am Grace?

I think I Am Grace is probably one of the better solutions but it doesn't help against brown and gray like it does other brigades.  If you want to get extremely picky it is red, making your offense more than one color, but I think that would be a silly argument.

few characters who play CBN cards

Few?  What type two defense do you know that don't use CBN battle winners x 3, 4, or 5?

So, how would you have ruled 2kh on Assyrian Archer then?

Exactly how it was ruled with others.  You just band and draw and then Michael(or Eli) plays first.  I don't see how defining "first" to actually play as first is faulty.  I don't think the new ruling is faulty either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't redefine something that has been played differently for 4 years.  It also doesn't mean that it doesn't take silver down a few notches on the power scale.  Michael+Angel's Sword has been a centerpiece of silver type two offenses and now it is functionally useless when you take an honest look at what defenses are being played.  The number of type two defenses that do not have a "play first" Enhancement or Character or combo is extremely low.

There are dozens of high and low numbered angels and no one has more fbtn goodness on offense than angels.

Initiative is what rules type two because it allows you to play your battle winners straight away.  Why do you think Jacob is so good?  And Ethiopian Treasurer?  They get to play a card without a Evil Character even in battle.  If you don't see how important it is to be able to play your Enhancements before your opponent then I think you have some learning to do about the nature of type two, and to a lesser extent type one, though I don't think this has nearly the effect on type one silver as it does for type two.  FbtN is good, yes, but there are too many CBN defensive cards to be able to base your offense on it.  Angel's Sword is what made silver competitive when combined with the FbtN and the banding.  By taking away that initiative aspect, silver is severely weakened in type two game play.

I am tempted to build one just to see it done.

I'm confident that a mono silver offense will not be able to win a tournament above local level as a result of this redefinition.  I would grant you a few tournament wins in the event that you don't have to play a lot of games because of low number of participants but I don't think a mono silver offense has a chance to win consistently.  If you try and succeed, I'll be glad that you proved me wrong.

Anyway, I think I've mourned enough over the effect this has on silver in type two.  I'm sure we could go around the card counter carousel for days but I'm going to go ahead and get off here.

A winning T2 silver consists of Michael, Capn, TSA, and a few other heroes that help. Such as Zaccheus, Peter, and Phillip. But for the most part there are three angels. And the winning combo is TSA Gathered to Michael w/ Angel's Sword. Then you play your enhs against anyone that is blocked. Now with this new ruling the top defenses right now will play before and take care of one or both heroes. What Bryon said about silver heroes having low numbered heroes is honestly nothing. A 1/1 king will destroy you as well as the Wc enhs. So although you have interrupts and negates and banding with btn, a top defense will beat this offense every time, sorry. So what Sean said is completely true, this will not rank in any top tournaments and make MONO-silver not used.

Wow the weapons activating before banding thing just created a lot of amazing combos for type 2 defenses awesome.  Hopefully people will abuse this.

Yea tyler - were talking about monosilver top ranking strategies; not almost completely silver with one red guy and one blue guy to stop simothmagician and a zaccheus for a chamber. You were completely off target with that one.

Why areyou starting this conversation.

I'm not starting anything.  Sean is the one who approached this from the standpoint of silver-only offenses, and you are saying that winning T2 silver offenses are splashed.  The two statements don't make sense together, and you're saying that Sean's statement is correct because of this completely different thing that you are saying.

Is there some reason that you think this discussion benefits from being sarcastic and bringing other people down?

There could be some strategic pros and cons of WC before banding, but for the most part you are right.

Why?

Michael enters battle and completes his ability.
Rab enters battle and completes his ability.
Now that's done, Michael gets to play the "first" Enhancement.

"Add a second Hero" also no longer just means "second" and yet no one gripes about that.

Know why? Doing that didn't "ruin" the card, it made it stronger, so why would anyone complain? 

I agree though, this isn't the end of the world. Silver is still strong.

Its just stupid that Michael + Angel's Sword has been played that way since Kings and now it changes.  Only in Redemption would "play the first enhancement" be the same thing as "play the next enhancement".

No, Only in Redemption does "Play the first enhancement" mean, "When all character abilities and WC abilities complete, you may play the first enhancement"

Besides, if you REALLY want to get technical about the wording, Angel's Sword itself IS the first enhancement played in battle, so If read litterally like you all seem to be doing, it plays itself.

If you've read the other threads, you'd see that nothing can be inserted between a card entering battle and the resolution of its special abilities. Nothing can be inserted between Two Thousand Horses entering battle and its special abilities (interrupting, drawing, and playing) resolving. Not even triggers waiting to "fire" can be inserted.