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I'm not an Elder, so take this as you may, but abilities that grant CBN, CBI, or CBP are always inherently CBN. This has been the default ever since the Warriors Michael was created back in 1999.As far as the logic:1. Enhancements played by Michael cannot be negated.2. King of Tyrus blocks Michael, so now Michael's ability is negated.3. Now enhancements played by Michael are negated.4. This now defies #1.Basically, the decision to make CBN/CBP/CBI abilities inherently CBN is based on allowing CBN/CBP/CBI to do what they are supposed to do anyway.
Just to be clear. An ability that negates a characters ability can negate Michael's & Thomas's ability? So if I banded Michael to Captain then Michael's ability is negated?
No, you cannot negate Michael's ability. YMT was using that as an example of what could happen if it wasn't ruled the way it is.
Quote from: theselfevident on September 04, 2011, 04:52:54 PMJust to be clear. An ability that negates a characters ability can negate Michael's & Thomas's ability? So if I banded Michael to Captain then Michael's ability is negated?No. That would be making it unclear. Michael's ability (as well as any other ability that grants CBN/CBP/CBI) can not be negated under any circumstance.
That's the point of negating though.
so going forward, if it says "cannot be prevented" "cannot be interrupted" is equal to "cannot be negated"?
Quote from: theselfevident on September 04, 2011, 05:00:41 PMso going forward, if it says "cannot be prevented" "cannot be interrupted" is equal to "cannot be negated"? No. You are taking what I have said completely out of context.
Not trying to. Just trying to make sure I understand completely. So it is as it has been with no ruling changes?
Quote from: theselfevident on September 04, 2011, 05:03:50 PMNot trying to. Just trying to make sure I understand completely. So it is as it has been with no ruling changes? I never said there was a ruling change. I was trying to help answer lp670sv's question.
My understanding was that lp670sv did not understand why Michael's ability can not be negated, or more specifically what the logic behind the ruling was. This is a common question that is asked at least once a year by people who have not already been privy to each prior discussion about it. We all ultimately want to know the reason for what card abilities can and cannot do, so we can plan our decks or rule tournaments accordingly (and accurately).The bottom line is that nothing can stop a card that grants another card CBN/CBI/CBP from granting that power. "Cannot be negated" abilities cannnot be negated by anything, directly or indirectly.
Cannot be negated = Cannot be negated. Period.Cannot be interrupted = Cannot be interrupted. Period. (It can be prevented, but only before it is played).Cannot be prevented = Cannot be prevented. Period. (It can be interrupted, but only after it has been played).
The lost soul that says "the first evil enhancement played is CBP by a good card" is CBP by good cards. But it can be prevented by evil and neutral cards, such as the FBTN LS.Asaph says "Good enhancements involving music cannot be negated by evil cards". This ability is CBN by evil cards, but can be negated by neutral and good cards, such as Blessings.
Quote from: jmhartz on September 06, 2011, 08:10:04 AMThe lost soul that says "the first evil enhancement played is CBP by a good card" is CBP by good cards. But it can be prevented by evil and neutral cards, such as the FBTN LS.Asaph says "Good enhancements involving music cannot be negated by evil cards". This ability is CBN by evil cards, but can be negated by neutral and good cards, such as Blessings.No sorry you are wrong on both accounts, I believe. I am not 100% positive about the ls example, but the Asaph one is wrong. What you're misunderstanding is that the enhancements played by Asaph CAN be negated by good cards, because his ability allows it, but his ability itself that is granting that cbn status CANNOT be negated. So if I played blessings, like you said, my opponent still cannot negate my music enhancements.
Quote from: lightningninja on September 06, 2011, 12:45:27 PMQuote from: jmhartz on September 06, 2011, 08:10:04 AMThe lost soul that says "the first evil enhancement played is CBP by a good card" is CBP by good cards. But it can be prevented by evil and neutral cards, such as the FBTN LS.Asaph says "Good enhancements involving music cannot be negated by evil cards". This ability is CBN by evil cards, but can be negated by neutral and good cards, such as Blessings.No sorry you are wrong on both accounts, I believe. I am not 100% positive about the ls example, but the Asaph one is wrong. What you're misunderstanding is that the enhancements played by Asaph CAN be negated by good cards, because his ability allows it, but his ability itself that is granting that cbn status CANNOT be negated. So if I played blessings, like you said, my opponent still cannot negate my music enhancements.Actually, there was a big ruling thread about Asaph. Jmhartz would know, because he started it.
