Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: lightningninja on August 15, 2012, 03:12:39 AM
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So... I think there's an issue with him. What's Redemption's definition of a priest? I always thought it was 'from the line of Levi,' which he's not.
But the main thing is, having done a little bit of studying about him and hearing my pastor, I'm pretty sure he's Jesus. First of all, his name means 'king of righteousness.' Shalem means peace, so he's the king of righteousness and peace. Additionally, if you read Hebrews 7, it says he has no father, no mother, and no geneology. That can't be a human, except for Christ.
So... does he need some identifier switching? I also feel a little strange attacking and having Jesus get defeated in battle... if people were offended at redeeming demons, this is WAY over that line.
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The definition of Priest is fairly general, just like Priests of Christ isn't from the line of Levi (well technically some of them may be, but it isn't a given) as well as there are Philistine Priests who are most definitely not from the line of Levi, but still priests.
As for Melchizedek possibly being Jesus, its basically irreverent for the game, much like how Captain of the Host is likely Jesus, since it isn't stated in the Bible, we don't count him as such. Keep in mind there is even more evidence to suggest that Prince of this World, Prince of the Air and possibly a few others are Satan, that doesn't mean they are different characters for a gameplay purpose.
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But Satan can sometimes triumph and also sometimes be defeated by humans, depending on their faith and circumstances. So that's not Biblically inaccurate/offensive. Once again, I think having Jesus attack and be defeated is way more anti-Christian than redeeming demons. So I think it's very relevant.
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If everyone believed that Melch was really Jesus, then I would probably have a problem with this. However, it is a debated subject. Some think that he WAS Jesus, others think that he was simply a "Type" of Jesus (like many in the OT including Isaac, Joseph, etc.) And most others have never even heard of him.
Since it's not clear-cut, I think we're fine where we are on this one.
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I agree w/ Prof U on this. I see him not as Jesus, but as one that loved God and served him. One thing to remember is that the writer of Hebrews knew most likely about as much as we do. The point is there isn't enough information to say anything that this is really Christ. Also, Abraham seemed to know of Salem. I'm just throwing these thoughts out there.
Also, It is quite possible that Hebrew didn't exist as a language then and their word for peace may be because of what the King of Salem did.
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Wait it's just someone who loved God? I understand he's not KNOWN to be Jesus, but prof I think I misunderstood you. Were you saying Abraham/Joseph etc. are types of Jesus? I don't think I understand what you are saying.
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Were you saying Abraham/Joseph etc. are types of Jesus?
Those people of course were NOT Jesus, but something in their lives served as an analogy which pointed to Jesus in the future. This idea has been called "types" of Jesus. You can read the basics about it here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28theology%29)
Some examples would be:
Melchizedek - he was a priest and king, and Jesus would later be referred to as our High Priest, and also as King of Kings.
Isaac - he was the son who freely offered himself as an innocent sacrifice on top of a mountain for his father Abraham. Jesus is God's son who freely offered himself as an innocent sacrifice on top of the hill of Calvary for His Father in Heaven.
Joseph - he was sold for silver coins into a life of slavery but returned from prison to save all of Egypt and his own family who had rejected him. Jesus was also sold out for silver coins, and lived a life of servanthood. Jesus also was imprisoned (by soldiers and the grave), yet returned to bring salvation to all the world, including the very people who at first rejected Him.
Jonah - he spent 3 days in a big fish before returning to help save the lost people of Nineveh. Jesus would later spend 3 days in the tomb before returning to bring salvation to lost people everywhere.
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Well said Mark
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I believe Melchizedek was a Theophany, and I have very good scriptural reason to believe so. However, that shouldn't disqualify Him from being a Priest even if it were established in Redemption.
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I believe Melchizedek was a Theophany, and I have very good scriptural reason to believe so. However, that shouldn't disqualify Him from being a Priest even if it were established in Redemption.
Care to explain what this means? :)
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And here's to answer the line of levi in jewish culture.....(our church does studies...)
Only someone from the line of levi could be a priest but! You didn't have to be a priest. This is what my understanding is.
KingLeo 8)
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A Theophany is an appearance of a pre-incarnate Christ (although that's a little arbitrary since time doesn't apply to God). Other examples include the Angel of the Lord and Captain of the Host.
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A Theophany is an appearance of a pre-incarnate Christ (although that's a little arbitrary since time doesn't apply to God). Other examples include the Angel of the Lord and Captain of the Host.
Oh gotcha. Yeah I totally agree.
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I would like to point out that only the Isrealite Priests were supposed to be from Levi. There are other priests mentioned in the Bible that are counted as Priests in Redemption (like Abel, Priests of Christ, etc.) that are not from Levi, also I'd like to note that Levi himself is not a priest either. I don't see why for Redemption terms we should limit the definition of Priest to only Decedents of Levi.
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I would like to point out that only the Isrealite Priests were supposed to be from Levi. There are other priests mentioned in the Bible that are counted as Priests in Redemption (like Abel, Priests of Christ, etc.) that are not from Levi, also I'd like to note that Levi himself is not a priest either. I don't see why for Redemption terms we should limit the definition of Priest to only Decedents of Levi.
Abel isn't a priest. If Abel is a priest so is Elijah, Noah, Abraham, and multiple other people who preformed sacrifices.
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All Hebrew Priests are from the line of Levi (and Aaron more specifically). Some people count for Priests in Redemption if they were not Hebrew, and they can come from outside the Levitical line.
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I agree with Pol except for the small caveat that some evil Priests were installed by the Kings of Israel and I seem to recall that they weren't all Levites. I don't recall for sure but I don't think Amaziah the Ungodly was a Levite.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
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There is more arguement that Abel could be a priest then that he was a prophet.
Question: can anyone explain why he is a Prophet? (or at least has the identifier)
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Jesus mentions something about how the Pharisees would be held responsible for the deaths of all the prophets, from Abel to Zechariah (or something to that effect). I asked the very same question years back when I built my prophets deck.
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There is more arguement that Abel could be a priest then that he was a prophet.
Question: can anyone explain why he is a Prophet? (or at least has the identifier)
Luke 11:50-51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2011:50-51&version=ESV)
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Okay... I'll agree he's a prophet from that.
I'll have to ask for this definition of Priest.
My understanding of Priest:
Priest - a person that intercedes (by making offerings) to appease the justice of God and to worship Him (or a false god)
This is my understanding, does anyone else have a different definition of Priest?
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All Hebrew Priests are from the line of Levi (and Aaron more specifically). Some people count for Priests in Redemption if they were not Hebrew, and they can come from outside the Levitical line.
Well technically Jesus is a priest who was Hebrew, but as he doesn't have a hero card in redemption, it doesn't really matter for Redemption purposes.
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I'm pretty sure there's no Jesus Hero ;) Although, you could make the argument technically for Mighty Warrior being a Priest in the order of Melchizedek ;)
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Also, I don't think that would matter either.
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I'm pretty sure there's no Jesus Hero ;) Although, you could make the argument technically for Mighty Warrior being a Priest in the order of Melchizedek ;)
Interesting. Very interesting.
Okay... I'll agree he's a prophet from that.
Good. I'm glad Jesus was able to convince you Himself...;)
I'll have to ask for this definition of Priest.
My understanding of Priest:
Priest - a person that intercedes (by making offerings) to appease the justice of God and to worship Him (or a false god)
This is my understanding, does anyone else have a different definition of Priest?
While the REG may have an "official" definition, I think the practical definition is this: A Priest is a character who was called a Priest somewhere in the Bible (or in Church tradition, for extra-biblical characters like St. Patrick).
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I agree, but I'm looking at what the Bible commonly calls a Priest (which should be noted that Jesus is the final Priest being the ultimate interceeder between God and us, which my definition notes as a requirement of a Priest, so then there really shouldn't be another priest like the OT Priests after the gospels)
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Suddenly, Catholics v. Protestants thread!
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I'm not sure what you mean by "like the OT priests", but there is biblical justification for Priests after the Gospels:
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
1 Peter 2:9
Also the Bible calls Jesus the high priest, not the only priest.
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It says Priesthood not Priest. What Peter saying is that we have been made pure by Christ and now have the ability to talk to God and pray to God without the need of offerings of physical items.