Author Topic: Decrease (Read 3120 times)

spicynumber1 · « **on:** December 26, 2010, 01:41:09 AM »

If you use hunger to decrease two 5/5 hero 's in battle, they are instantly decreased but stay alive in the battle as two -1/-1 characters until the end of the battle, right?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2010, 01:49:40 AM »

That's correct. Furthermore, any decrease cards with "immediately Discarded" wording are outdated and will not actually Discard a Hero before the end of the phase.

joeycauldron · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2010, 11:47:43 AM »

Wow, and here we have been playing the wrong way the whole time!

The M · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2010, 07:14:21 PM »

What happens when you are increased and decreased at two different phases?

joeycauldron · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2010, 07:05:09 PM »

I think it depends what happens first, If you are decreased at a phase before you are increased, then you are discarded at the end of the phase. Unless I am mistaken, what it sounds like is that you would be discarded at the end of the battle phase on the example they gave earlier.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2010, 10:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 26, 2010, 01:49:40 AM

That's correct. Furthermore, any decrease cards with "immediately Discarded" wording are outdated and will not actually Discard a Hero before the end of the phase.

That seems wierd. You'd think the "immediately Discarded" cards are like decrease battle winners.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2010, 11:05:55 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 28, 2010, 10:18:39 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 26, 2010, 01:49:40 AM
That's correct. Furthermore, any decrease cards with "immediately Discarded" wording are outdated and will not actually Discard a Hero before the end of the phase.

That seems wierd. You'd think the "immediately Discarded" cards are like decrease battle winners.

Except that the 10th Anniversary Rulebook specifically states that character abilities can fall below zero during the battle phase. It is, however, unfortunate that the older cards needed "clarifying text." I can certainly see why so many of us play those cards wrong until a thread like this reemphasizes the rule.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2010, 01:32:08 AM »

you would think a card would trump game rule.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2010, 04:42:56 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on December 29, 2010, 01:32:08 AM

you would think a card would trump game rule.

You're thinking of Spades.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2010, 11:59:41 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on December 29, 2010, 01:32:08 AM

you would think a card would trump game rule.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2010, 01:33:40 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 30, 2010, 11:59:41 AM

Quote from: RTSmaniac on December 29, 2010, 01:32:08 AM
you would think a card would trump game rule.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

If that were true, then the original Prince of this World and Enoch are a lot more powerful.

browarod · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2010, 06:30:02 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 30, 2010, 01:33:40 PM

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 30, 2010, 11:59:41 AM
Quote from: RTSmaniac on December 29, 2010, 01:32:08 AM
you would think a card would trump game rule.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

If that were true, then the original Prince of this World and Enoch are a lot more powerful.

I see why PotW would be, but not Enoch....

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2010, 06:43:34 PM »

Quote from: browarod on December 31, 2010, 06:30:02 PM

I see why PotW would be, but not Enoch....

That's because you trusted the REG. The actual Enoch card has the additional sentence:

"Return Enoch to territory after battle."

browarod · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2011, 08:03:16 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 31, 2010, 06:43:34 PM

Quote from: browarod on December 31, 2010, 06:30:02 PM
I see why PotW would be, but not Enoch....

That's because you trusted the REG. The actual Enoch card has the additional sentence:

"Return Enoch to territory after battle."

I never said anything about the REG, I was looking at the actual card and saw that, but I always assumed it was clarifying text rather than a separate ability.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2011, 10:18:12 AM »

I think there should be no such thing as "clarifying" text, because quite frankly it does the opposite of what its title suggests.

The M · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2011, 10:58:35 AM »

I posted it on a thread a while back and everybody disagreed that it wouldn't do anything.
Grapes would be so much more fun.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2011, 12:59:11 PM »

Why not just make a play-as that does what the clarifier says? "Discard all heroes in battle who have zero or less toughness"

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2011, 03:37:02 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 26, 2010, 01:49:40 AM

That's correct. Furthermore, any decrease cards with "immediately Discarded" wording are outdated and will not actually Discard a Hero before the end of the phase.

The key ruling regarding this confusion is found below:

Quote from: Bryon on October 21, 2010, 02:21:38 PM

So, for Warriors and earlier, it appears we have two kinds of multi-sentence abilities:
1) second sentence is not a second ability, but clarifies the first (Prince of this World, Hunger, etc.)
2) second sentence depends on the first completing, and modifies the result of that first ability (set asides, Temptation, Golden Censer, withdraw and keep enhancements, etc.)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2011, 11:16:11 PM »

Actually, there's a third kind: cards that do what they say in both sentences.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** January 02, 2011, 01:21:19 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 01, 2011, 11:16:11 PM

Actually, there's a third kind: cards that do what they say in both sentences.

Can you give an example of a card that doesn't fit into the 2 categories that Bryon mentioned?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** January 02, 2011, 01:30:49 PM »

Quote from: browarod on January 01, 2011, 08:03:16 AM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on December 31, 2010, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: browarod on December 31, 2010, 06:30:02 PM
I see why PotW would be, but not Enoch....

That's because you trusted the REG. The actual Enoch card has the additional sentence:

"Return Enoch to territory after battle."
I never said anything about the REG, I was looking at the actual card and saw that, but I always assumed it was clarifying text rather than a separate ability.

We're going backwards here.

Someone posted that SAs override game rules. I mentioned cards with "clarifying text" that do not override game rules, with examples of why they should not. The whole idea of the examples was to illustrate that if PotW and Enoch were not clarifying text, they would be more powerful.

Ammian · « **Reply #21 on:** January 02, 2011, 04:24:20 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 02, 2011, 01:30:49 PM

The whole idea of the examples was to illustrate that if PotW and Enoch were not clarifying text, they would be more powerful.

Quite correct. Before the clarification in the actual rules, my friends and I would play where, unless two or more heroes were involved, the rescue attempt would fail - even if King's Sword or Angel of the Lord were involved. Needless to say, the clarification was a bit of a dampener.

Oh well. Prince of this World is still very powerful.

Ammian · « **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2011, 04:49:08 PM »

By the way, am I correct in believing that decrease cards decrease the heroes immediately, but the decreased heroes (with */0 or less) are only discarded at the end of the phase, provided they haven't played some enhancement to increase their abilities to at least */1?

If that be the case ...what happens if you play the Vineyard or something and set aside Widow (who, after Hunger, would presumably be -3/-3)? Is she discarded at the end of the phase? Or do you wait until she comes back (when she would be 1/1, although she would be 7/7 since the decrease was no longer in effect)? What about for Saint of Virtue (8/2) and Vineyard?

Interesting how "decreased" is one letter off from "deceased," isn't it.

-IV

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Author Topic: Decrease (Read 3120 times)

browarod

browarod

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk