Author Topic: Fortelling Angel and Change  (Read 3526 times)

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Fortelling Angel and Change
« on: March 31, 2019, 04:56:19 AM »
0
If I have Foretelling Angel in play and say, the top card of my deck is not a Daniel card. Then I attack with Azariah (PoC) and use his ability to get a Daniel Card on top of my deck will Foretelling Angel be revealing the Daniel card so when Azariah bands to another Daniel hero, their ability will be CBN? Or does Foretelling Angel have to wait until all the abilities complete before the card can be revealed?

The Foretelling Angel
Special Ability: Protect deck from discard. Play with top card of deck face up: While it's a Daniel card, Daniel characters cannot be negated. If it's a Daniel card, you may add it to hand. Cannot be negated.
Play As: Protect cards in deck from discard. Reveal the top card of deck while this ability is active: While it is a Daniel card, Daniel characters cannot be negated. If it is a Daniel card, you may take it. Cannot be negated.

Spoiler (hover to show)
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2019, 08:54:01 AM »
+1
TFA’s ability continually updates so when Azariah topdecks a good Daniel card it gets placed face up. When Azariah bands to a Daniel human that human’s ability is CBN. That’s my understanding at least.
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2019, 08:59:24 AM »
0
TFA’s ability continually updates so when Azariah topdecks a good Daniel card it gets placed face up. When Azariah bands to a Daniel human that human’s ability is CBN. That’s my understanding at least.

+1
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Sean

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 09:08:35 AM »
0
Just want to make sure my brain is processing correctly.  If, for the sake of argument, all cards in deck are Daniel cards and I have Foretelling Angel then I can fill my hand to maximum at any time?  Even when its not my turn?
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 09:14:25 AM »
0
Just want to make sure my brain is processing correctly.  If, for the sake of argument, all cards in deck are Daniel cards and I have Foretelling Angel then I can fill my hand to maximum at any time?  Even when its not my turn?

Correct. Presently that is not possible though. There is only 1 Daniel Lost Soul and it has a SA. There are also no Daniel Doms so you’d have to run a dominantless deck.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline 777Godspeed

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1985
  • Breathe redemption into wasted life, Breathe deep
    • -
    • Northwest Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 09:17:24 AM »
0
Just want to make sure my brain is processing correctly.  If, for the sake of argument, all cards in deck are Daniel cards and I have Foretelling Angel then I can fill my hand to maximum at any time?  Even when its not my turn?

Correct. Presently that is not possible though. There is only 1 Daniel Lost Soul and it has a SA. There are also no Daniel Doms so you’d have to run a dominantless deck.

Like Type NW?   ::)

Godspeed,
Mike
Divine mental biopsy reveals you need psychosurgery
When in doubt  D3.
I support Your Turn Games.

Offline Sean

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 09:25:40 AM »
0
Just want to make sure my brain is processing correctly.  If, for the sake of argument, all cards in deck are Daniel cards and I have Foretelling Angel then I can fill my hand to maximum at any time?  Even when its not my turn?

Correct. Presently that is not possible though. There is only 1 Daniel Lost Soul and it has a SA. There are also no Daniel Doms so you’d have to run a dominantless deck.

Consider this my petition to make a Daniel Lost Soul with special ability that reads, "While this card remains in a Land of Redemption, all Dominants drawn must be reserved.  Players may banish a card from Reserve to take a Dominant from Reserve."  or "While this card remains in play, all Dominants drawn must be reserved.  Players may banish a card from Reserve to take a Dominant from Reserve."
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline thejambi

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Programmer & Sound Guy
    • -
    • Midwest Region
    • BurnSoftware
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 09:44:15 AM »
0
Just want to make sure my brain is processing correctly.  If, for the sake of argument, all cards in deck are Daniel cards and I have Foretelling Angel then I can fill my hand to maximum at any time?  Even when its not my turn?

Correct. Presently that is not possible though. There is only 1 Daniel Lost Soul and it has a SA. There are also no Daniel Doms so you’d have to run a dominantless deck.

Consider this my petition to make a Daniel Lost Soul with special ability that reads, "While this card remains in a Land of Redemption, all Dominants drawn must be reserved.  Players may banish a card from Reserve to take a Dominant from Reserve."  or "While this card remains in play, all Dominants drawn must be reserved.  Players may banish a card from Reserve to take a Dominant from Reserve."

I think it needs: "If the top card of a deck is revealed and a Dominant, the owner may reserve it."
-Zach
Titus 1:9

Offline Sean

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 09:49:27 AM »
0
That defeats the purpose of forcing the opponent to reserve their dominants in exchange for using a deck with out any (or minimal amount).
May you prosper greatly!
Daniel 4:1b

Offline thejambi

  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 170
  • Programmer & Sound Guy
    • -
    • Midwest Region
    • BurnSoftware
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2019, 09:52:03 AM »
0
That defeats the purpose of forcing the opponent to reserve their dominants in exchange for using a deck with out any (or minimal amount).
Gotcha. I was going with something that would let you put dominants in your deck.
-Zach
Titus 1:9

Offline Kor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2019, 09:37:39 AM »
0
Related question: On a Draw 3 does each card drawn get revealed?  Or just before and after?
Life is what you make of it.

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2019, 09:44:24 AM »
0
Related question: On a Draw 3 does each card drawn get revealed?  Or just before and after?

Just before and after.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Kor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2019, 10:00:17 AM »
0
Thanks!
Life is what you make of it.

Offline goalieking87

  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
    • East Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2019, 10:18:15 AM »
0
So based on the responses in this thread, if I draw “Gain” or “Lawless” or similar lost soul, I should be able to reveal the top card and take it if it is a Daniel card before triggering the Lost Soul’s special ability.

Is that how it would be ruled?

Just wanting to make sure.

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2019, 10:39:07 AM »
0
So based on the responses in this thread, if I draw “Gain” or “Lawless” or similar lost soul, I should be able to reveal the top card and take it if it is a Daniel card before triggering the Lost Soul’s special ability.

Is that how it would be ruled?

Just wanting to make sure.

You cannot activate a manually trigger ability (you may take) while other abilities need to be completed. Technically the top card is revealed. Functionally I don’t see people remembering to do that often since the information is about to change (with lawless or gain). If you were to take the top card you would forgo your chance to activate the Lost Soul.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2019, 02:09:43 PM »
0
So based on the responses in this thread, if I draw “Gain” or “Lawless” or similar lost soul, I should be able to reveal the top card and take it if it is a Daniel card before triggering the Lost Soul’s special ability.

Is that how it would be ruled?

Just wanting to make sure.

You cannot activate a manually trigger ability (you may take) while other abilities need to be completed. Technically the top card is revealed. Functionally I don’t see people remembering to do that often since the information is about to change (with lawless or gain). If you were to take the top card you would forgo your chance to activate the Lost Soul.

So I get to see the card on top of my deck before I choose whether to use a card like Lawless on myself?
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2019, 02:12:32 PM »
0
So I get to see the card on top of my deck before I choose whether to use a card like Lawless on myself?

I believe that is correct. With Foretelling Angel your top card is always face up at all times.
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline goalieking87

  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
    • East Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2019, 06:02:10 PM »
0
I’m a little confused by that ruling.  It appears that all of those abilities would be optional triggered effects.

According to the REG:

Quote

Triggered Effect
An ability with a triggered effect has an effect that is waiting for event to occur be activated. A triggered effect always has a condition that is checking for an event to happen. Triggered effects may be ongoing or instant. When a card with an ability with a triggered effect is played, the condition activates and begins checking for the triggering event to happen, and the condition is triggered when the event happens.  Triggered effects may be optional or mandatory. Optional triggered effects will be designated with a “may” or similar wording, while mandatory triggered effects simply describe the outcome without giving a choice. Mandatory triggered effects that are not negated persist at least until the end of the current phase, even if the card leaves play or set aside, unless otherwise specified on the card. If the triggering event deactivates the ability without interrupting or negating it, then the triggered effect can still be activated. If the triggering event activates the ability, then the triggered effect can still be activated. Otherwise, optional triggered effects may only be activated while the card it is on is controlled by the holder and is either in play, Land of Redemption or set-aside area.

While the condition of a triggered effect is triggered by an event happening, the effect may not activate until there are no effects resolving. Abilities with triggered effects that are waiting to activate are pending abilities. If multiple triggered effects are attempting to activate at the same time, the active player activates all mandatory effects they control in the order they choose, then whether to activate all their optional effects in the order they choose. During the Battle Phase, then the defender activates all mandatory effects they control in the order they choose, then whether to activate all their optional effects in the order they choose. Then inactive players activate all mandatory effects they control in the order they choose, then whether to activate all their optional effects in the order they choose, in turn order around the table.

So since they are all optional and you get to choose which order to activate them, I don’t see why you couldn’t pull the top card before activating souls.

Also, under Targeting in the REG, manually targeted effects are defined and don’t seem to fit TFA:

Quote
A manually targeted effect is any effect that allows a player a choice of targets. An automatically targeted effect is any effect that targets the entirety of a location, or the “next” or “last” or something. An effect that has targets of “all (except 1)” is considered manually targeted for activation and automatically targeted thereafter, since the exception is declared at the initial targeting, but cannot change.

Since The Foretelling Angel always targets the top card, it doesn’t give you a choice of targets.
Is there another part of the REG that I am missing?

TFA has a very unique special ability and I have always been skeptical of what should happen with the lost souls activating.

Offline RedemptionAggie

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+38)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • -
    • South Central Region
Re: Fortelling Angel and Change
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2019, 07:37:10 PM »
0
Gabe said manually triggered, not manually targeted. Manually triggered effects would be covered under "activated effect". Manually triggered might be the better official name for them, though.

The "if drawn", "if put in territory", etc. LS are not triggered, and they have to be completed to complete the draw, and you have to complete the draw before you can use the manual trigger/activation of the take on TFA.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal