Author Topic: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot  (Read 1558 times)

Offline TheJaylor

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Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« on: May 26, 2017, 12:14:22 AM »
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The REG states that a character is a martyr if they are traditionally recognized as one in the church, which I believe both of these fellas are so recognized, are they not? I feel like being beheaded and sawed in half should qualify, right?

Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 12:20:00 AM »
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All the disciples except John are considered Martyrs, I beleive. The only reason John isn't is because Stephen is considered the first martyr( for game purposes, at the very least)
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 12:39:38 AM »
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I only count 7 disciples on the REG list, actually.

Also, "Thaddeu (Di" is missing an s and a close parentheses. "James (half-brother of Jesus" looks weird, but that's what the card actually says.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 01:57:53 AM »
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For purposes of Redemption, we have defined the martyrs as beginning with Stephen (which would disqualify John the Baptist).

It is not universally agreed upon by church tradition if Simon was a martyr. At least one account that I found says he died peacefully.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 09:07:27 AM »
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I think John the baptist being a martyr though is sketchy, first off he wasn't a Christian, so unless we count all of the people in the O.T who died for their faith than no dice. And, he was not killed specifically killed because of his faith.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Martyrdom of John the Baptist and Simon the Zealot
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 09:28:46 AM »
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I think John the baptist being a martyr though is sketchy, first off he wasn't a Christian, so unless we count all of the people in the O.T who died for their faith than no dice. And, he was not killed specifically killed because of his faith.

Correct. He was imprisoned because of his preaching against Herod that Herod found offensive, but was killed because of an oath Herod swore in haste. He didn't actually "follow" Jesus but announced his arrival. John had his own disciples too. They followed John while John did his mandated call but none of them (including John) actually "followed" Jesus.

If we look at Stephen, however, he truly followed Jesus and preached the gospel and was killed specifically because of his allegiance to Jesus and His teachings. The scripture says that when Stephen saw Jesus he saw Him standing at the right hand of the Father, which some have indicated that Jesus, though we know He went to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, intentionally stood because of the fact that Stephen was the first follower of His that was killed for his faith in Him.

So I believe it was correctly determined by the elders to have the martyrs begin with Stephen.
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Offline emonier

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Re: When did Martyrdom become a "thing"?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 11:15:44 AM »
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Hello all,

This is an interesting "church history" question.

I was going to add that you might want to use the ORIGIN OF THE CHURCH (in Acts 2) as a reference point for who is a martyr and who is not.

In other words, anyone who died for their faith AFTER Acts 2 would be a martyr, but if they died previous to that, they would not be, because there was no church before Acts 2.

This would qualify Stephen, and disqualify John the Baptist, as well as all the other OT saints.

What do you think?

God bless...

 


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