Cactus Game Design Message Boards

No.

3 (and 2) Liner have errata. The ability is an identifier. They cannot be negated.

Quote from: jtay on September 01, 2010, 12:18:39 AM

I was reading through the disciples card list and I discovered an anomaly on the Luke 19:10 lost soul.

Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Beginning in the phase after this card is put in play, negate all special abilities on Lost Soul cards (except this one).

Could this be the first card that can negate the 2 and 3 liner souls?

does it ever stop negating sa on lost souls?

Not until it is rescued or Burial'd.

Since I don't think it got answered in the last thread I asked this in, I'll ask it again: Does this negate other copies of itself?

Yes. But there is no situation I can think of where it would matter.

If 2 copies are out, which one's SA works?

The one that activated first. If you draw two of them on the same turn, I guess you get to decide the order they activate. If you and your opponent both get one in the same phase, I guess it would probably come down to whichever one was put in play (and thus set the trigger) first. But like I said, I can't think of any situation where it would matter.

Since I don't think it got answered in the last thread I asked this in, I'll ask it again: Does this negate other copies of itself? If 2 copies are out, which one's SA works? If the one negating is shuffled, rescued, discarded, etc., does the other one's SA kick in and continue negating everything else?

Yes. Ongoing Lost Soul abilities only last until the Lost Soul is removed from play somehow (except for the anti-Burial, which works only when it is rescued). So removing the one that is negating the other would allow the other to kick back in, and continue negating every other Lost Soul.

Thanks for the answers Prof!

One last question: If this and the Shuffler LS are out and I rescue this with SoG and the shuffler with NJ, do the other LSs get shuffled? I.E.: Does its ability last through the phase or only until the physical card is removed?

No other abilities kick in between the rescues of Son of God and New Jerusalem. That includes the "kicking in" of the shuffler's ability to shuffle. So SoG+NJ on those two souls result in no other souls shuffled, but the rest of the LS abilities kick in afterwards.

Hey,

I disagree with Prof Alstad. If you slap down SOG then NJ and target the shuffler, that is the only soul that will be rescued. Then again, thats because SOG and NJ don't work beings once you play SOG the ability activates and rescues a soul. No game rule or SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously, so once SOG is done completing it is discarded and you play NJ which just fizzles.

Now, if you play NJ and then SOG, that might work.....






(I was originally going to try and get this ruled at a local tournament because it'd be awesome and it seems like a good argument. But I decided that was too mean)

It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls.  This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.

Right, thats why I said "if you play NJ first....". But I've never seen anyone throw NJ down before SOG. They always throw down SOG and then NJ. In that scenario, the second SOG is played it activates and is discarded. Then NJ fizzles.

Quote from: sk on September 01, 2010, 03:59:07 PM

It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls.  This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.

Right, thats why I said "if you play NJ first....". But I've never seen anyone throw NJ down before SOG. They always throw down SOG and then NJ. In that scenario, the second SOG is played it activates and is discarded. Then NJ fizzles.

I've only ever seen people put them both down at the same time.

A.) That would be impossible on RTS.
B.) The one that hits the table first would activate first. I agree the majority of people do play them 'at the same time', but they play NJ on top of SOG 99%of the time, meaning they actually played SOG first.

NJ goes under SoG in my hand, so NJ hits the table first when I play them together. I guess I'm one of the 1%

What's your point with this train of thought? I sense a derailment in its future.

My point is in many situations I can be a jerk only allow my opponent to rescue 1 soul instead of 2 with SOG + NJ if they don't play it very carefully and my logic is correct.

I don't think your logic is correct, but I admittedly only have past precedence to go on.

No.

3 (and 2) Liner have errata. The ability is an identifier. They cannot be negated.

Reprints of these cards might be nice in the future. I have my share from way back when, but with the changes in rules and additions of new players new versions could not hurt.

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 01, 2010, 07:23:39 PM

Your logic isn't correct. Simultaneous has been defined in Redemption terms as "within a few milliseconds" (or maybe up to half a second on RTS). Basically enough time for your NJ to activate simultaneously with your SoG, and not enough time for your opponent to react with his own NJ. So even if SoG instantaneously rescued and was discarded before NJ activated (which I suppose you could argue, possibly successfully to some judges), NJ would still be played simultaneously with the SoG you just played, since it activated within a few milliseconds of your SoG.

>:c. Thats more fail than the angry mob ruling >:c.

EDIT: Does that mean I can actually play enhancements simultaneously if I play one, my opponent passes init, and I play another within the few miliseconds?

So all enhancements played by Arrogance are simultaneous?

The one that hits the table first would activate first. I agree the majority of people do play them 'at the same time', but they play NJ on top of SOG 99%of the time, meaning they actually played SOG first.

I'm apologize in advance...but that is just ridiculous.  If we start arguing about which card actually physically hit the table first and that effecting how they are played, this game is going to be abandoned by the time this year is out....