Author Topic: Mayhem causing Mayhem (Read 2308 times)

Minister Polarius · « **on:** October 07, 2010, 05:47:16 PM »

My opponent draws, I play Mayhem, he plays Nazareth, claiming he's "responding to his own action." Is that so? And if it is, can I just play everything I want to play after each draw phase and *then* let my opponent Mayhem?

From the other angle, I drew and played a card, then he played Mayhem quickly afterward (or at the same time, on my screen it said my card was down first, while on his screen he said his card was down first). Can he make me pick my card back up to insert his Dominant? Alternately, if there is a genuine tie (akin to a Judge not being able to tell), whose card should take precedent?

browarod · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:00:17 PM »

Legitimately, you can play Mayhem during the end of his Draw Phase and there's nothing he can do about it. Phase transition is usually understood and not mentioned, but in this case you have a legal right. That's how I would rule, at least.

As for the second question, it would depend when you were drawing.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:22:43 PM »

Draw phase. I'm asking because I've always been told it's whoever plays the card first. You can't slapjack in battle, but everything else is pretty much just slapjack. I'd really like some real rules/clarification on this matter.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:25:27 PM »

As far as RTS goes, i've seen where both guys said that RTS shows them as playing the card first. So that doesn't help much. As far as RTS games go, if both claim they played the card at the same time, the best bet is the good ole' coin flip.

Daniel

browarod · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:25:36 PM »

As far as I know, Mayhem can be played after the draw, before the end of the phase, so that nothing can be put down from either hand.

Probably could use an Elder for this one, though.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:34:54 PM »

I don't think Mayhem can be played during draw phase, but I could be wrong.

I'm somewhat sure that your Mayhem works, though. Sites aren't part of "responding to your own action", only doms and (arts?). He has to give you a chance to play your Mayhem before he lays anything down during his prep phase, otherwise he'd be denying you due to slapjack.

Also, I know that people have suggested to flip a coin when RTS has the "you went first" for both people glitch, but that doesn't make sense to me. I always have went with the last game action tie breaker, beings if it was close enough to glitch out RTS it would be too close to tell in RL, too.

Master KChief · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:35:25 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on August 16, 2010, 02:12:44 PM

Hey,

Quote from: Deist on August 16, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
So until a ruling is actually made with authority you can be either person.

Your opponent has a right to respond to any action you perform with a dominant or a manually triggered ability as long as they intend to do so immediately upon observing the action taken (with the exception that you can respond to your own action with a dominant or manually triggered ability first).

That is the rule and has been the rule for several years.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:38:26 PM »

Could you break that explanation with an example?

Daniel

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:41:20 PM »

Adotson told me that was still under dispute, but that was a while ago and they may have agreed by now.

I've been pretending Rob said that since Tim posted it anyway, though

Master KChief · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on October 07, 2010, 06:41:20 PM

Adotson told me that was still under dispute, but that was a while ago and they may have agreed by now.

I've been pretending Rob said that since Tim posted it anyway, though

isnt that exactly what you said in your last post though?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:44:20 PM »

Yes. I've been pretending Rob said that because I like that method

.

Master KChief · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:44:56 PM »

i've always understood it has worked that way for years as well.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2010, 08:57:08 PM »

We need a ruling with authority. As we all know, just Sirnobody without someone else backing him up is not authoritative.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2010, 09:00:13 PM »

Wrong.

Tim is just as authoritative as any other Elder. Until one comes in and contradicts him, since none has what he says should be taken as an accurate ruling.

Quote from: CactusRob on May 25, 2010, 07:10:40 AM

To help resolve ruling issues, the following people have authority to making rulings in the game.

Tim is one of the people listed after this.

Rob goes on to say, that if another elder agrees it can be read with a higher degree of confidence, that does not mean that a single elder doesn't need to be listened to just because you feel that they have a history of being inaccurate.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2010, 09:07:18 PM »

K, thanks.

adotson85 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2010, 01:45:14 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on October 07, 2010, 06:34:54 PM

I don't think Mayhem can be played during draw phase, but I could be wrong.

I'm somewhat sure that your Mayhem works, though. Sites aren't part of "responding to your own action", only doms ~~and (arts?).~~ He has to give you a chance to play your Mayhem before he lays anything down during his prep phase, otherwise he'd be denying you due to slapjack.

Also, I know that people have suggested to flip a coin when RTS has the "you went first" for both people glitch, but that doesn't make sense to me. I always have went with the last game action tie breaker, beings if it was close enough to glitch out RTS it would be too close to tell in RL, too.

I asked Gabe about this awhile back and his ruling was along the line of Tim's. I have always played that after you draw you have the opportunity to play a dominant, aka "respond to your own action," before your opponent plays anything. To me the drawing phase is more along the lines of a game rule than an action anyways. Therefore, I would agree that Mayhem sticks since it was played before Nazareth. Of course someone is going to say they were about to play Nazareth after you play Mayhem, whether that was truely their intention or not.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2010, 01:48:02 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on August 16, 2010, 02:12:44 PM

Your opponent has a right to respond to any action you perform with a dominant or a manually triggered ability as long as they intend to do so immediately upon observing the action taken (with the exception that you can respond to your own action with a dominant or manually triggered ability first).

I think I agree with Tim. In this case, as long as the player was planning on playing Mayhem immediately after the draw 3 to start the turn, then they should be able to do that before the other player puts down Nazareth.

It's usually pretty obvious when this is going to happen. I've gotten in a habit of asking my opponent who has just cleared their hand down to only a couple cards whether they want to play Mayhem after I draw 3 to start my turn. I'm not saying that anyone HAS to do that, but it has been a habit that has helped prevent any arguments in my games over whether they wanted to play Mayhem

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »

Ok, so Mayhem always take precedent over playing cards. If I D3 and want to play my Dominants before my opponent plays Mayhem, do I win because I'm responding to my draw or does the Mayhemer win because

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2010, 03:43:03 PM »

As long as you both plan to do it as soon as you see the cards (no time for thinking), you win.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2010, 05:15:28 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on October 08, 2010, 03:43:03 PM

As long as you both plan to do it as soon as you see the cards (no time for thinking), you win.

CJSports · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2010, 05:37:21 PM »

If it comes to slap-jack mayhem wins because it is a dom and as long as like we said before you weren't thinking about it and you just play it you win.

Smokey · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2010, 06:11:48 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on October 08, 2010, 05:15:28 PM

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on October 08, 2010, 03:43:03 PM
As long as you both plan to do it as soon as you see the cards (no time for thinking), you win.

So, if I draw 3, see an art, goys, and a fort that I plan to immediately put down, then I can do that before my opponent can mayhem since I'm responding to my action of drawing immediately?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2010, 06:15:38 PM »

You can play GOYS if you plan to do so as soon as you see it. Then, your opponent will have a chance to play Mayhem if he plans to do it asap (no time to think). If he takes time to think about playing Mayhem, you're more than welcomed to then play your art and fort.

Master KChief · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2010, 07:44:48 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on October 08, 2010, 06:11:48 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on October 08, 2010, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on October 08, 2010, 03:43:03 PM
As long as you both plan to do it as soon as you see the cards (no time for thinking), you win.

So, if I draw 3, see an art, goys, and a fort that I plan to immediately put down, then I can do that before my opponent can mayhem since I'm responding to my action of drawing immediately?

of those 3, the only thing you can respond to your draw with is the goys. the other 2 you cannot.

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Author Topic: Mayhem causing Mayhem (Read 2308 times)

browarod

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