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The scenario is I block and play Babel (with Asherah Pole) to band in characters A-Z.  I use several abilities and then character K has a horses on him which I use to play Forgotten History.  What exactly happens?

The ruling on Babel says the characters are all brought in at once and then they activate their abilities one at a time in some order.  When an end the battle card is played I'm pretty sure you can't play anything else, regardless.  The part I'm confused about is whether the other characters L - Z were ever really in battle.  I thought it was said that a characters ability activates simultaneously with a character entering battle and that conversely a character hasn't really entered battle until their ability is completed (like for triggers and such).  So it seems either they aren't really all in battle yet or abilities aren't really simultaneous with the characters or you play something after the end the battle card.  I don't see any other option.  Help?

Since I usually use Babel/Horses for nuke abuse, I usually just do that and not worry about anyone else's ability.

now you could just choose for the play next to be the last hero and it wouldn't matter.

This does seem like the easier way to do it.  Can you give an example why someone wouldn't just bring in the guy with horses last?

Based on the Babel ruling, you may want to try and abuse the fact that the characters are "in battle" but their ability has not activated yet. So, you get their numbers without them kicking everyone out of battle.

It seems to me that if you band in a bunch of guys and at some point one of them is 12FG, then he is going to negate that band with his character SA.  That would make it as if the previous guys banded in who had the horses never actually banded in to begin with.  That would mean that the horses would never activate to play the battle ending enhancement.  Does that make sense?

But character abilities happen before WC abilities.  So if all the characters come in at the same time, then all the character SAs would happen before any WC abilities.  So if you want to keep the band and end the battle by playing an enhancement due to the horses, then you shouldn't bring in 12FG at all.  Right?

The way it should go is that Babel targets X number of EC's (just like Arrogance and enhancements)  Those EC's enter battle simulaneously and their abilities activate in the order the player chooses. 


Here is where it breaks down.  Should we activate all the 1 abilities, followed by all the 2 abilities  as per this list of special ability operations?

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.


Or do we choose to activate the entire list of SA's on each character before moving on to the next.

IMO since they enter the battle simulaneously, then you have to complete all the #1 abilities then all the #2 abilities. etc.  Which means that, in this scenario, you would never get to the #4 or #5 abilities because the horses plus forgotten history ends the battle as soon as it is played.


The only way around this is to say that Forgotten history gets in line behind all the other abilities on the characters..but since it is an interrupt that kind of defeats the purpose.

I say they are all in battle but their SA's just fail to complete as soon as FH is played the battle moves to resolution phase.

The way it should go is that Babel targets X number of EC's (just like Arrogance and enhancements)  Those EC's enter battle simulaneously and their abilities activate in the order the player chooses.  

Activate all the 1 abilities, followed by all the 2 abilities as per this list of special ability operations.

When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:

1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.

3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.

4. Then, complete banding abilities.

5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.

This is correct.

If a banding card targets  multiple characters  to be banded into battle, the characters are banded in simultaneously. The banding player  chooses the order in which the special abilities activate, provided the rule for any “choose opponent” special abilities  are activated  last (see Choose Blocker or Rescuer). The special ability of each character  is completed sequentially in the activation order.

In the event that there are still abilities that have not completed after a play next + end the battle card is played then any remaining abilities simply do not complete.  That doesn't mean that the characters didn't enter battle since everyone enters simultaneously.

So I could use a non-CBN babel, band in guys like KoT and 12fingers, but activate Rabshakeh w/ 2kh, and use Forgotten History to gain their numbers, but not their SA? Epic.

Wait.... I thought you just said they all characters go through the full order of abilities minus CTB, one by one?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the abilities all try to activate together...

So in that case, schaef's combo does NOT work as intended, unless he makes Babel CBN.