Author Topic: Location of cards and timing #2  (Read 1313 times)

Offline galadgawyn

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Location of cards and timing #2
« on: May 28, 2010, 07:04:16 PM »
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Can you play dominants between the winning enhancement and the negate being played?

If I make a rescue with a blue guy, they block, I play Book of Hozai - get nothing, then play Book of Jasher and draw SoG, NJ, and Abe's Servant.  I don't want to negate my draw so I pass.  Then they play a capture card.  Can I play my SoG,NJ and then play my Abe's Servant?

When they play the capture card, is my hero physically in battle, land of bondage, or sort of both?  Could they play their Burial on my hero after the capture card to make it unnegatable?

There was a similar question asked last year about using Angel of the Lord on your own evil character but I'm now questioning it.  The person wanted to play an evil battle winner and then Angel of Lord their own guy so the opponent couldn't negate it.  It was ruled at the time that you could still negate the enhancement even though it was no longer in play because otherwise how could you negate cards like Deluge of Rain.  I think those scenarios are different.  To my understanding you can negate Deluge of Rain because the rule about all cards completing has the exception of battle winners allowing the opponent a chance to interrupt or negate.  So you try to capture the hero but the hero is not really captured yet because he negates it while it is still in play.  But if you use Angel of the Lord on the evil character then he is gone and the enhancement is immediately discarded by game rule.  This is unnegatable; the enhancement or character can't be brought back, right?  Now I think a negate the last evil enhancement played would still work but I don't see how Zeal or negate evil in play would work.

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2010, 07:08:09 PM »
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One other similar scenario I'm trying to figure out.

If I block with Nebuchadnezzar to band in an archer who discards their hero in territory then band to Nergal with horses who plays the multi evil enh to remove their discard pile from the game,  Do I target the hero I discarded?  Can they negate the discarding of that hero?

The Schaef

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 07:26:49 PM »
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Your SoG-then-Abe's Servant play is legal as far as I can tell.

So is burying a Hero captured immediately.

Them discarding their character really has nothing to do with your ability to play your negate on your character against his battle winner.  So I think that negate should still be legal if most - if not all - circumstances.  Negate-in-play is a little more tricky but I think the answer is the same.

As long as the discard happens first in the sequence, the removal would apply.  Pretty sure they can still negate that, though.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2010, 07:31:53 PM »
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I don't believe the SoG play is legal. At NC regionals last year Tim and Chris ruled that you couldn't play Abe's in a very similar scenario. I can't remember the exact logic, but the idea is that you can't insert the dominant before the capture completing, and if you allow the capture to complete you've passed on the opportunity to play the negate.
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The Schaef

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2010, 07:38:42 PM »
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oh, well, I guess if you're playing the negate on the same character, probably not.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2010, 07:40:46 PM »
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Yeah, sorry, I was interpretting that as a single hero in battle. If you have two dude, then you could let one be captured, snag a few souls with dominants, then play the negate.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2010, 10:40:46 PM »
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you can't insert the dominant before the capture completing, and if you allow the capture to complete you've passed on the opportunity to play the negate.
This makes sense assuming that the only hero in battle was being captured.

It would seem to indicate that if the only hero in battle was captured, that Burial also would not be allowed to insert itself until after there was an opportunity to play the negate.

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 09:37:48 AM »
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Ok, if you can't insert Dominants before negating then the Angel of the Lord scenario doesn't matter. 

What confuses me here is that I thought when you removed a character from battle there was an initiative check and I thought any time there would be an initiative check you had the opportunity to play Doms. 

The Schaef

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 10:06:32 AM »
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There is, but the ability of the first card must complete before you play the next card.  By playing the Dominant, you are basically conceding that your character was allowed to be captured.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Location of cards and timing #2
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 10:30:10 AM »
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The way I've always understood it, when your character is being removed from battle, your very next action must be to interrupt that removal if you are to have that character continue the battle. So agree with Schaef and the "other Prof".

Of course, it doesn't have to be the very next Game action to occur. Think of 'He is Risen'. Your opponent can band in an Angel after it has taken effect and use the Angel's SA, even if no EC's remain in battle. And yet, even after this happens, I would rule you can still interrupt it (otherwise I would hate the card even more than I do now). I would view this similarly to your opponent using AotL after Wrath, in which case you can still interrupt even though the EC is dead.
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