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I think the idea of nixing all converted EC abilities is a terrible idea. It will kill self-conversion as a strategy for all but Paul.

Sure. It will kill a strategy in a game that is growing less and less popular with each passing day. Part of the reason for that is that there's little reason for a 14 year old to pick up the game when there are mainstream alternatives that are a lot simpler to learn. Think about it: To be even remotely competent with G/H decks, you have to memorize a couple dozen different terms and rules minimum, a lot of which are needlessly complicated because of the lack of a solid foundation when Redemption was originally founded. Anything that simplifies rules that aren't a part of the core mechanics of the game, no matter how minor, is a win, because it's making the game more accessible. Simpler is better. Either allow all abilities to convert or no abilities to convert, and since the former will never happen because of ideological issues, that only leaves none. I love converting Proud Pharisee as much as the next guy, but at this point, I would rather see rule changes that encourage longevity of the game.

For those not aware of the history, I just want to clear up a misconception that seems to have taken root in this thread...

The "what types of SAs convert" rule changed when it was recognized that there were certain abilities (specifically the suicide abilities) whose conversion could no longer be forbidden based on their "goodness/evilness" but that they didn't want to allow to occur for game play purposes. It was decided at that time to completely throw out the thematic basis for deciding which abilities converted in favor of making that decision solely based on game mechanics/balance.

This whole discussion of the inherent evilness of certain SAs is really beside the point.

Simpler is better. Either allow all abilities to convert or no abilities to convert, and since the former will never happen because of ideological issues, that only leaves none.

And by "allow all abilities to convert" do you mean both evil => good conversion and good => evil conversion?

And by "allow all abilities to convert" do you mean both evil => good conversion and good => evil conversion?

I meant all conversion, including good to evil and evil to good. And in fact, in thinking about it again, I don't even think allowing all abilities to convert is even the right call either. I think simply saying "Characters converted to the opposite alignment have no special abilities" is the best way to go about this. It's short, sweet, and above all, simple. Will it neuter some strategies and cards? Yep. Will it completely retcon a few cards - even ones printed in the last few months? Yep. Do I think either of these arguments are enough to outweigh the advantages of elegant simplicity? Nope.

I might agree with elegant simplicity if this one change would actually make a difference or was the only thing complicated about the game. Making one thing simpler does not make the game simple. It's a complex game and for me (and many others) the complex interaction of abilities is what makes it fun.

"Easy to learn, difficult to master" is a phrase that really ought to describe a CCG that's primarily being marketed to a demographic comprised of children and teens. Redemption is anything but easy to learn. Look at other CCGs being marketed towards a similar demographic: Hearthstone, Pokemon, Yugioh. All games that a 14 year old can pick up and be mildly proficient in in 15 minutes. All of them filled with complex strategy. I've had the advantage to see Redemption taught to little kids and soccer moms for about 5 years at Creation, and it's complicated to learn and teach. I'm all for complexity in rulesets (the Game of Thrones board game, which takes at least an hour to teach, is one of my favorite games right now), but this is a game whose money gets made from 14 year olds. Requiring memorization of a couple dozen definitions just to get through one game is a lot. Short of trimming down those definitions and reworking the entire rule set (which will never happen), the best thing we can do is work to simply as much as possible. Simplifying this one ability does not do much on it's own, but it is, I believe, a start, and a pretty good one, considering the fact that the Early Church made conversion a much more prominent ability than it has been traditionally, especially to new players who don't have access to Holy Grail. I think a major focus of the leadership needs to be simplifying anything that can be to make the game more accessible, because at the moment, it isn't. Changing this one ability won't make the game simpler on it's own, but no single snowflake is responsible for the avalanche either.

"EC abilities convert except for those that target a Hero" is really not all that complicated.

It's not just that though, it's also the already-established stipulation that Heroes who are converted to Evil Characters do not retain their abilities. Then you throw in Evil Characters converted to Heroes do retain their abilities, except for abilities that target Heroes. Conversion now has three clauses to memorize (Converted Heroes don't retain abilities, Converted ECs do retain abilities, EC abilities which target Heroes do not get retained), when it really could only be just one.

Just as an aside, I played DJWeb in T2 today and the reason for the question in the first place was a pretty cool combo idea (if Hero abilities converted).

Use LOA to convert Joseph to a Heretic. If Joseph's ability converted, you would then have a 2/2 Heretic who could protect a NT Lost Soul from rescue and was protected from discard. 

I actually wasn't asking about Joseph's ability converting, I assumed that would transfer like from ECs to Heroes. I just didn't know if the ability was negateable or would reset in deck or hand. Good thing it didn't come to that in the game.

If my opinion means anything, I think all abilities should transfer both ways except the ones that target heroes. It just makes sense to me. If the goal is to make the game simpler to learn, there's probably a lot better places to start than this issue.