Author Topic: Land Dispute vs Site Placer LS INGAME (Read 2929 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** December 12, 2009, 07:31:25 PM »

If I place an EC face down on a multicolor site using the Site Guard soul, and an opponent uses Land Dispute?

When you place this card in a Site, you may put an Evil Character face down from hand, The Darkness or Tartaros on that Site. During a rescue attempt at that Site, you may add that Character to the battle.

If used by a Philistine, take an opponent's Site. If he doesn't have one, discard one of his Fortresses instead.

Would the EC....

1) get discarded
2) follow the site and become their EC to use
3) follow the site and still be my EC to use?
4) follow the site and only work if I make a rescue attempt there, allowing me to band it into battle in a CTB fashion?

Any help is appreciated.

sk · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:19:37 PM »

I would think it follows the rules of capture, in which case the character is discarded.

REG > Instant Abilities > Fortify or Place > How to Play
Fortify site cards remain on the site until the site is no longer occupied, the site is removed from play, the site guard is targeted for removal (e.g., Dragon Raid), or the site guard enters battle.

REG > Instant Abilities > Discard or Remove > Default Conditions
If a card leaves the Land of Bondage, discard all evil cards placed on it other than Lost Souls or captured characters.

It may be worth noting the ability of Danites Attack:
Take one Lost Soul site from opponent and place in your territory. If site held a Lost Soul (s), Lost Soul(s) is returned to general Land of Bondage. Discard any other cards in that site.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:27:04 PM »

I know for a fact that I've had it ruled that Satans Seat stays on a site if it is taken with Taking Naboths Vineyard.

the ONLY thing that might lead me to thinking the EC dies is this:

Quote from: sk on December 12, 2009, 08:19:37 PM

Fortify site cards remain on the site until the site is no longer occupied, the site is removed from play, the site guard is targeted for removal (e.g., Dragon Raid), or the site guard enters battle.

*edit to your edit*

Quote from: sk on December 12, 2009, 08:19:37 PM

If a card leaves the Land of Bondage, discard all evil cards placed on it other than Lost Souls or captured characters.

It never leaves. It is instantly switched to a different Land of Bondage.

sk · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:41:05 PM »

That's the best I can find. I didn't come across the ruling you mentioned with Satan's Seat... do you remember the reasoning?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:45:23 PM »

I just know i've asked an official about it in the past, and it was ruled that way, not sure if its the same.

This is a very akward situation to say the least though...

sk · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2009, 08:47:52 PM »

Any thought on whether the bold part of Danites Attack's ability is clarification or special ability?

Danites Attack
Take one Lost Soul site from opponent and place in your territory. If site held a Lost Soul (s), Lost Soul(s) is returned to general Land of Bondage. Discard any other cards in that site.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2009, 09:00:12 PM »

Possibly ability... as it is the ONLY card of this type that has it that I've seen.

But you bring up an interesting point there.

SirNobody · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2009, 01:56:43 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 12, 2009, 07:31:25 PM

If I place an EC face down on a multicolor site using the Site Guard soul, and an opponent uses Land Dispute?

Would the EC....

1) get discarded
2) follow the site and become their EC to use
3) follow the site and still be my EC to use?
4) follow the site and only work if I make a rescue attempt there, allowing me to band it into battle in a CTB fashion?

The Evil Character is not discarded. As with any other card that is placed on a different card, the Evil Character follows the site it is placed on. Taking the site takes the site, it does not take the Evil Character placed on the site so the Evil Character is still controlled by the player that placed it (even though the character is now in their opponent's territory). I'm not sure what you mean by "use" the Evil Character. If by "use" you mean "can block a rescue attempt with" then neither player can "use" the Evil Character. You can only block a rescue attempt with an evil character that you control that is in your hand or territory and the placed Evil Character does not fit that requirement for either player (actually, even before the site is taken the Evil Character can not be used to block a normal attack because the Evil Character is face down which means it is not actually in your territory, the Evil Character can only enter battle by the ability on the lost soul that placed it).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:48:45 PM »

I think that ruling causes way a lot of logistic problems. It's already been ruled that you can't have duplicates of Heroes/EC's just because one is Ambushed/The Darkness'd or whatever, so it would follow that the face-down character, if unique, must be one-of-a-kind. But how can you know that? If the character is already in his territory, do you have to tell your opponent? If it's not and the card remains face-down and unknown to your opponent, could you make a RA and have your opponent attempt to Uzzah you, only to go "AHA! You can't bloc with Uzzah because you have a face-down Uzzah in your territory!"

I have never been a fan of face-down cards counting, though. I've always maintained that you should be able to have multiples until one or more of them being revealed makes it an illegal situation, in which case you must then Discard one.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:21:06 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 14, 2009, 02:48:45 PM

I have never been a fan of face-down cards counting, though. I've always maintained that you should be able to have multiples until one or more of them being revealed makes it an illegal situation, in which case you must then Discard one.

I agree. The face-down unique ruling causes more problems than this ruling would. And those problems are easier to fix while maintaining consistency.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:30:05 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on December 14, 2009, 01:56:43 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "use" the Evil Character. If by "use" you mean "can block a rescue attempt with" then neither player can "use" the Evil Character. You can only block a rescue attempt with an evil character that you control that is in your hand or territory and the placed Evil Character does not fit that requirement for either player (actually, even before the site is taken the Evil Character can not be used to block a normal attack because the Evil Character is face down which means it is not actually in your territory, the Evil Character can only enter battle by the ability on the lost soul that placed it).

By use I did mean using the SA on the soul, and you could choose to use the add to battle SA with no other EC's in battle, since its like Unknown Nation.

However, in this situation, wouldn't it be easier to just have the EC either get discarded, or return to its owners territory?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2009, 03:32:16 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 14, 2009, 03:30:05 PM

However, in this situation, wouldn't it be easier to just have the EC either get discarded, or return to its owners territory?

No. Placed cards follow their hosts unless otherwise specified is a pretty simple rule. We don't need more exceptions.

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