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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Lampstand
« on: August 06, 2009, 12:23:29 AM »
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I am unsure why Lampstand protects cards no in play (Redeemed lost souls) because Special Abilities default to play and this one says nothing about cards outside play.  I would think it would default to in play like every other protect card that doesn't say it protects something out of play.

(I am sure this has been discussed before but I still don't get it and disagree with Lampstand protecting the Land of Redemption)

This would also effect Mayhem which targets hands.  Because I don't think players hands should be protected by Lampstand.

Lampstand of the Sanctuary
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect all cards not in battle from evil Dominants (grim-reaper icon cards). • Identifiers: OT, Tabernacle Item, Temple Item • Verse: Exodus 25:31
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Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 12:25:09 AM »
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I believe the reasoning is that the target is "cards NOT in battle" so any card, whether in play or not, that's not in battle is protected.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:26:38 AM »
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I agree. No default is needed since the card's SA is very specific.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 12:32:30 AM »
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The way I read it within the rules would be Since cards default to play and this card says nothing about targeting cards outside of play (which I thought was needed for cards to target outside of play) it shouldn't.

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Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 12:36:39 AM »
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Lampstand is slightly different than other cards in that it targets things outside a location. Because of the way the target works, it's similar to how A New Beginning shuffles face-down cards without explicitly mentioning them.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 12:45:55 AM »
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Fair enough
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Offline TimMierz

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 09:39:06 AM »
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So if Mayhem is played while Lampstand is up, nothing happens, correct?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 09:41:38 AM »
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Quote from: TimMierz on August 06, 2009, 09:39:06 AM
So if Mayhem is played while Lampstand is up, nothing happens, correct?

Correct.  Mayhem was actually reworded during testing to ensure that is the case. 

At one point it was worded in a way that the hands were protected from shuffle but each player would still draw 6. :P
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2009, 10:22:03 PM »
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I know this is kinda a necro-post but I have a question,

Why Does Lampstand stop Mayhem?

Mayhem
Type: Grim Reaper • Brigade: • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Each player must shuffle hand into deck to draw six. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Isaiah 59:7 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Lampstand of the Sanctuary
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect all cards not in battle from evil Dominants (grim-reaper icon cards). • Identifiers: OT, Tabernacle Item, Temple Item • Verse: Exodus 25:31 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Mayhem doesn't target a physical card, but a location (Much like ANB) additionally based upon the ruling that you can discard zero cards to fulfill the cost of discarding your hand, I would say that if Mayhem is the only card in your hand, you could play it to draw 6. Lampstand's doesn't protect a hand with zero cards in it from being shuffled. perhaps it does protect the deck though, that would be cool, force a shuffle with no redraw ;)
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Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 10:35:17 PM »
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Quote from: Arch Angel on August 06, 2009, 12:25:09 AM
...the reasoning is that the target is "cards NOT in battle" so any card, whether in play or not, that's not in battle is protected.
Your hand/deck aren't in battle, so they're protected from Mayhem.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 10:41:39 PM »
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Right, but Mayhem isn't targeting any cards, its targeting a specific location (Hand) It's just like Primary Objective, If my opponent can discard 0 cards from his hand to stop PO then I can certainly target a hand of 0 cards with Mayhem.
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Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 10:44:34 PM »
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I think Lampstand would protect the cards in your deck from being drawn/shuffled either way, though.
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Offline everytribe

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009, 10:46:40 PM »
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Red Dragon Thorn isn't it past your bedtime? :)
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009, 10:59:49 PM »
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Hah! You're funny Bill, Past my Koala's time maybe ;)
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 09:02:46 AM »
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Mayhem targets all the cards in your hand, whether it's 16 cards or 0 cards.  If those cards are protected by Lampstand then Mayhem cannot target them. 

ANB also targets the cards it shuffles.  That's why the "Thorns LS" keeps souls from shuffling with ANB, and the "Color Guard LS" in a green Site keeps your Evil Characters from shuffling.  When they're protected/immune ANB cannot target them to be shuffled.

Now go to bed little koala. ;)
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Lampstand
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 03:16:50 PM »
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Hey,

If you have zero cards in your hand after you play Mayhem, and Lampstand is active, you would be able to satisfy the cost on Mayhem of shuffling your hand.  Lampstand protects cards in your hand, since there are no cards in your hand it protects nothing.  Mayhem shuffles the cards in your hand, all zero cards in your hand can be and are shuffled (well not really but you get the point) which satisfies the condition.  But then you go to draw six cards and your draw pile is protected from Mayhem so there aren't any cards you can draw.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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