Author Topic: Lahmi and his spear (Read 8008 times)

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **on:** January 12, 2010, 02:36:38 PM »

Lahmi's spear is a 3/2 weapon and says worth 6/8 if played on a giant. If it is played on Lahmi, does the name-on-name bonus work for the 3/2 orginial of the weapon or the 6/8 special ability of the spear? I just wanted to make sure...

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:38:45 PM »

Only the 3/2.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:39:54 PM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on January 12, 2010, 02:36:38 PM

Lahmi's spear is a 3/2 weapon and says worth 6/8 if played on a giant. If it is played on Lahmi, does the name-on-name bonus work for the 3/2 orginial of the weapon or the 6/8 special ability of the spear? I just wanted to make sure...

NoN only affects the number abilities, not the special abilities of cards. So if you played it on Lahmi, it would be worth 6/8, or 6/4 if the ability is negated. It would never be 12/16.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:43:19 PM »

Do you get to pick if you want the NoN or the sa?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:50:52 PM »

I believe the SA always trumps the NoN unless it is negated. For example, the Warrior's Goliath's Spear is 4/6 and has the ability "worth 8/10 if used by a giant." NoN would of course make it 8/12. I have heard that in the past that you can choose whether it's 8/10 or 8/12, but I wouldn't think that's the case since the ability is non-optional. I would say it is 8/10 in all cases except when the ability is negated, in which case it would be 8/12 if used by Goliath.

I think Goliath+Goliath's Spear is the only case where the SA is a slight disadvantage compared to the NoN. If you are using Lahmi and his spear, I'm guessing you're not going for initiative, so 6/8 would almost always be better than 6/4.

Interestingly, the Warrior's Lahmi's Spear is 3/4, and is worth 6/8 when used by a giant. So it's 6/8 either way.

SirNobody · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:36:45 PM »

Hey,

The first bullet under Special Conditions on the Increase or Decrease Abilities page of the new REG says:

Quote

Increase abilities and name-on-name bonus are mutually exclusive. When an enhancement has an increase ability and qualifies for name-on-name bonus the player that plays the enhancement must choose when the enhancement is played if they want to gain the effect of the increase ability or the effect of the name-on-name bonus.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:40:34 PM »

So, in the case of Weapon-Class enhancements, would you choose the first time you play the enhancement onto the table, or each time it enters battle?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:41:33 PM »

You would choose each time, WC ehns fully reactivate every battle.

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 12, 2010, 03:41:33 PM

You would choose each time, WC ehns fully reactivate every battle.

Well, the quote said "must choose when the enhancement is played" so I wasn't sure if putting it onto the table or it entering battle was "playing" it.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:56:18 PM »

WC simply allows you to bring an ehn into battle before the opponent blocks. You still play it when it activates.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:59:52 PM »

so you choose which ability you want when the spear enters battle?

and while we are on this topic. Weapons that enter battle always confuse me on this matter. Are they technically the last enhancement played in battle or not because it was brought in not played technically? I am not sure which one it is. xp

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2010, 11:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 12, 2010, 02:50:52 PM

Interestingly, the Warrior's Lahmi's Spear is 3/4, and is worth 6/8 when used by a giant. So it's 6/8 either way.

It's 3/2 not 3/4....

Sean · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2010, 11:55:15 PM »

Why do you have to choose one? How come you can't have both?

Bryon · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:54:47 AM »

Name on name bonus is defined as doubling the numbers in the icon box of the card. That part I understand for certain.

The part I don't get is why we allow a choice in this case. It seems like special abilities should trump name-on-name bonus. Or maybe the other way around? But why do we get to choose? I know it is the way it has always been done (at least for the last 12 years), but now I wonder why one doesn't trump the other. Anyone have any reasons? Just tradition?

SirNobody · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2010, 02:16:44 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Bryon on January 13, 2010, 12:54:47 AM

But why do we get to choose? I know it is the way it has always been done (at least for the last 12 years), but now I wonder why one doesn't trump the other. Anyone have any reasons? Just tradition?

Because that's what Doug Gray said in 1999.

...so yeah, just tradition

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Sean · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2010, 10:43:44 AM »

Quote

Because that's what Doug Gray said in 1999.

I'm not trying to sully the name but that's a really bad reason.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2010, 10:46:51 AM »

Quote from: Sean on January 13, 2010, 10:43:44 AM

Quote
Because that's what Doug Gray said in 1999.
I'm not trying to sully the name but that's a really bad reason.

Yeah, I agree. SA should trump numbers and if the SA is negated, then numbers should prevail.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:25:19 AM »

I guess I had heard that you could choose in the past, but I had assumed that had been changed in favor of the more logical approach. Guess not.

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on January 12, 2010, 11:53:48 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 12, 2010, 02:50:52 PM
Interestingly, the Warrior's Lahmi's Spear is 3/4, and is worth 6/8 when used by a giant. So it's 6/8 either way.

It's 3/2 not 3/4....

I referred to the Warrior's Lahmi's Spear, as in the set, not the class.

Quote from: REG

Lahmi’s Spear

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 3 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Worth 6/8 if used by a giant. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: I Chronicles 20:5 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Common)

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:13:11 PM »

oh xp my bad

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 13, 2010, 10:46:51 AM

Quote from: Sean on January 13, 2010, 10:43:44 AM
Quote
Because that's what Doug Gray said in 1999.
I'm not trying to sully the name but that's a really bad reason.

Yeah, I agree. SA should trump numbers and if the SA is negated, then numbers should prevail.

but either way is fine with me. It would be cool to have a real legitimite reason of why we have a choice.

Sean · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:49:00 PM »

I don't see why both NoN and the special ability aren't both used. They aren't connected and they don't limit each other.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:52:35 PM »

so you want lahmi to gain 6/4 for name on name and 6/8 for the sa? That'd be sick!!

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:03:07 PM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on January 13, 2010, 12:52:35 PM

so you want lahmi to gain 6/4 for name on name and 6/8 for the sa? That'd be sick!!

No, I think he wants the spear to be worth 12/16, which would be ultra sick. Though I'm pretty sure NoN will stick to only affecting printed abilities, not gained/special abilities.

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »

ooohhhh....he wants to sa to get the name on name ok. Confused me a bit. That would be crazy

Sean · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:16:16 PM »

What I want is clarity. Tradition for the sake of tradition is not good.

Quote from: REG

Name-on-name bonus is an advanced rule (see Name-on-Name Bonus in the rulebook). When this rule is in effect, an enhancement card with a person’s name in the title is worth double its abilities (*/*) when played on a character card that has the same specific person’s name in the title. Play name-on-name bonus as “person's-name-on-same-person” bonus, because there are examples in the Bible where the same person has multiple names that are reflected in Redemption®. Name-on-name bonus does not affect nor is it affected by the special abilities on cards. Characters must be specific; generic characters cannot be used for name-on-name bonus.

Take note of the bolded part. Seems to me that Lahmi would get the NoN and then also use the special ability. This would mean that the special ability is separate from the abilities. NoN plays off of the abilities, not the special ability. Lahmi would get the 6/4 from NoN and then add the 6/8. Although, now that I look at the special ability I think it would actually be played differently. The special ability of Lahmi's Spear modifies the abilities of Lahmi's Spear if played on a giant. That would mean that the abilities would change to 6/8 rather than 3/2. The bonus from NoN would then change because the abilities changed. So the end result is Lahmi at 10/10 and Lahmi's Spear being 12/16.

SirNobody · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2010, 07:08:56 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Sean on January 13, 2010, 01:16:16 PM

What I want is clarity. Tradition for the sake of tradition is not good.

I don't see how the quote from the new REG isn't clear enough. If a ruling works and has worked for the last ten years, that sounds like a good enough reason to keep using it to me.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

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Author Topic: Lahmi and his spear (Read 8008 times)

browarod

browarod