Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Minion of Jesus on June 10, 2012, 05:36:48 PM
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Okay, the way I have played is that with Wastelands, you can use it's 2 use's on the same activation. Can you use Laban's ability twice in the same battle?
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No, character abilities activate one time, when the character enters battle.
Artifacts work the same way if they say "upon activation," otherwise there is no limit.
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Correct, you can only play Laban's effect once per turn.
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Gotcha. Imagine the annoyance to your opponent if you could though...
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Okay, the way I have played is that with Wastelands, you can use it's 2 use's on the same activation. Can you use Laban's ability twice in the same battle?
I know this was about Laban, but your question bases around an assumption about Wastelands I don't think is correct.
Wastelands (FF)
Type: Curse • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Selected opponent must place a Site from his territory beneath deck. May be used twice per game.
It does not say "once per turn" or "during battle phase" or any particular time it may be activated. Therefore, it defaults to only activating during Artifact Activation, and thus its ability can only be used then. It must on your turn, when your artifacts activate, and must be used then or not at all. The twice per game rule applies across all copies of this card, but it can only be used in the way I described.
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I'm not so sure your correct, that would be true if it said 'Upon Activation' but not otherwise. I saw it was legal to do that since it was ruled that way at a tournament I had gone too where an Opponent used the effect twice in the same turn.
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All Artifact abilities that do not indicate otherwise have an implied "upon activation." This didn't used to be the case, and you could use I Am Creator any time there were no Heroes in your territory (making it a very useful card), but now you are no longer able to because of the implied "upon activation."
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It has a limit on it already, it can only be used once per turn.
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He means the time during a turn it may be activated, not the amount of times it can be activated during a turn.
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It's already defined by game rules that unless otherwise noted, you can only trigger an Artifacts effect during Prep phase.
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It's already defined by game rules that unless otherwise noted, you can only trigger an Artifacts effect during Prep phase.
Exactly what I'm saying, except I'm also saying that because it is implied that the ability only works when the artifact is activated, you can only do it once per turn. You cannot do it twice because artifacts only activate once, and this particular ability can only be used at that moment.
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That is something I question, since it doesn't say 'Once per turn' but you can only use Artifacts effects ( unless they say otherwise) during your Prep phase.
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That is something I question, since it doesn't say 'Once per turn' but you can only use Artifacts effects ( unless they say otherwise) during your Prep phase.
As everyone else pointed out, there is an implied "Upon activation" if not otherwise stated. Artifacts may only be activated once during the Prep phase unless otherwise stated.
Thus, one activation.
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The artifact can only be activated once, but you can trigger an effect at anytime, while the Artifact is active unless it states Upon Activation or when it is supposed to activate.
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The artifact can only be activated once, but you can trigger an effect at anytime, while the Artifact is active unless it states Upon Activation or when it is supposed to activate.
Artifact activation is only once per turn. And as we pointed out to you, there is an implied Upon Activation if there isn't any other activation detail. That only happens once per turn. You can't trigger them any time when they are "Upon activation". That's the point.
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Then why do we have cards that say 'Upon Activation'?
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Archaic language.
Same reason we have cards that say Interrupt and Prevent instead of Negate.
Redemption language has been updated and standardized over the past couple of years as one of our main focuses on simplifying the game.
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Wouldn't that mean that Holy Grail isn't as good as it was before?
(Before Holy Grail could be used twice in the same turn and on either players turn...)
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Wouldn't that mean that Holy Grail isn't as good as it was before?
(Before Holy Grail could be used twice in the same turn and on either players turn...)
Holy Grail (Wa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may convert one human Evil Character per turn into a Hero in the brigade color of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Errata: Once per turn holder may convert a human Evil Character in a territory to a Hero in brigade of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game.
It has a per turn activation, which means that it doesn't have an "upon activation". Each turn, you can activate it. It has a maximum of two uses per game.
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The artifact can only be activated once, but you can trigger an effect at anytime, while the Artifact is active unless it states Upon Activation or when it is supposed to activate.
Artifact activation is only once per turn. And as we pointed out to you, there is an implied Upon Activation if there isn't any other activation detail. That only happens once per turn. You can't trigger them any time when they are "Upon activation". That's the point.
However, with the Holy Grail thing you can decide to use that in battle on an evil character in territory meaning that it doesn't really have that implied "Upon Activation," otherwise you would be forced to convert an evil character directly after you activate Holy Grail or not do it at all. And if Wastelands is anything like Holy Grail (and seeing how they're both artifacts with similar limits except the "once per turn" on Holy Grail) then you can use Wastelands right when activated and during battle.
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However, with the Holy Grail thing you can decide to use that in battle on an evil character in territory meaning that it doesn't really have that implied "Upon Activation," otherwise you would be forced to convert an evil character directly after you activate Holy Grail or not do it at all. And if Wastelands is anything like Holy Grail (and seeing how they're both artifacts with similar limits except the "once per turn" on Holy Grail) then you can use Wastelands right when activated and during battle.
As I pointed out in my previous post, there is a "per turn" activation on it, which means that there is no "upon activation". It has everything to do with having that part of the ability, and without something to say when it is used, cards like Wastelands can only be used "upon activation".
Really, it's right there in the card, and as we have pointed out, unless it says otherwise, artifacts (or cards used as artifacts) have an implied "Upon activation".
Holy Grail is not such a card, as it has a per turn use, meaning it can be used at any point during the turn.
Wastelands is such a card, as it has no other use clause, meaning it can only be used when activated.
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Thats true Redoubter, Holy Grail can be used in battle and at any time.
That's not what you said before. You said that all Artifacts unless otherwise mentioned are 'Upon Activation' and Once per turn doesn't define when it can be activated, only that I can't pull it off multiple times a turn.
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Thats true Redoubter, Holy Grail can be used in battle and at any time.
That's not what you said before. You said that all Artifacts unless otherwise mentioned are 'Upon Activation' and Once per turn doesn't define when it can be activated, only that I can't pull it off multiple times a turn.
It's actually exactly what I said before, if you read my very first post.
It does not say "once per turn" or "during battle phase" or any particular time it may be activated. Therefore, it defaults to only activating during Artifact Activation, and thus its ability can only be used then.
By having a 'once per turn' on the card, it actually states when the card is to be used: Once per turn. If it doesn't have something along these lines, then it is by definition "Upon activation" and works as we have been describing.