Author Topic: Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB (Read 825 times)

RedemptionAggie · « **on:** October 01, 2015, 01:39:07 AM »

Kir (TP):
If an opponent makes you use an Evil Character not your own, you may discard that Evil Character to search deck for an O.T. human Evil Character and add it to battle.

Kingdoms of the World (Pi):
Evil Characters here are protected from effect, and may be removed during holder’s preparation phase only. While an Evil Character is here, protect holder from being forced to block with another player’s character.

How do these cards interact with characters that may not in the control of their owner, via Canaan, Seven Wicked Spirits, etc. Are the bolded sections basically looking for ownership, or something else?

On Kir, if you discard, do you have to search afterwards? If you don't fail the search, do you have to add the EC to battle? (Maybe it's a side battle and you just want to kill the EC you were given control of.)

Praeceps · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2015, 11:11:36 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on October 01, 2015, 01:39:07 AM

How do these cards interact with characters that may not in the control of their owner, via Canaan, Seven Wicked Spirits, etc. Are the bolded sections basically looking for ownership, or something else?

On Kir, if you discard, do you have to search afterwards? If you don't fail the search, do you have to add the EC to battle? (Maybe it's a side battle and you just want to kill the EC you were given control of.)

1. I think both of these are referring to CtB situations. Kir says "makes you use.." and Kingdoms says "forced to block...". I would think you could choose to block with an EC not your own either through banding or through transferred control, you just can't be made to do so (KotW) without having an option (Kir).

2. If I remember correctly "do X to do Y" is cost/benefit and while you cannot gain the benefit without paying the cost, afaik you can always pay the cost without gaining the benefit. If you do the search, I'm not sure but I believe the "may" transfers down to all parts making the add to battle clause optional as well.

Gabe · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2015, 12:23:38 PM »

This is my take and not official unless another elder wants to concur.

The language on Kir only implies ownership. In your example, the Canaanite or SWS didn't come from your deck, so if I force you to block with it you can trigger Kir.

KotW implies both ownership and control because it uses the possessive "player's". Using your example again, I believe it's legal to CTB the Canaanite or SWS because the owner does not control them any longer.

For part 2, with Kir you can discard the character even if you cannot search. Under the new rule you can choose to fail the search by not finding an EC to add to battle. But I believe that if you find a qualifying EC you must add it to battle per the instructions of what to do with the searched for card.

Redoubter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2015, 04:42:46 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on October 01, 2015, 12:23:38 PM

This is my take and not official unless another elder wants to concur.

The language on Kir only implies ownership. In your example, the Canaanite or SWS didn't come from your deck, so if I force you to block with it you can trigger Kir.

KotW implies both ownership and control because it uses the possessive "player's". Using your example again, I believe it's legal to CTB the Canaanite or SWS because the owner does not control them any longer.

For part 2, with Kir you can discard the character even if you cannot search. Under the new rule you can choose to fail the search by not finding an EC to add to battle. But I believe that if you find a qualifying EC you must add it to battle per the instructions of what to do with the searched for card.

I concur with all of these statements as well.

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Author Topic: Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB (Read 825 times)

RedemptionAggie

Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB

Praeceps

Re: Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB

Gabe

Re: Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB

Redoubter

Re: Kir and Kingdoms of the World as Anti-CTB