Author Topic: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots  (Read 2511 times)

Offline Korunks

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Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« on: April 01, 2010, 08:38:33 AM »
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My opponent makes an RA with Maharai(Kings) banded to Helez(Kings) banded to Benaiah(Kings).  I block with a Philistine Armor Bearer riding some Chariots and Horses.  I Drew 2, play Foolish Advice to make the battle completely FBTN, my opponent thought that it would not work, is he right?  I do not believe so since my interrupt play next is NOT negated by Benaiah, then whatever I play next is not prevented since the prevent is an ongoing ability and is currently interrupted.  So the Battle would become FBTN vs. Maharai, right? Also it is noted that I did NOT draw Foolish Advice when I drew 2 cards as those cards would get placed back on top of my deck.

Helez

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 5 / 2 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band to a warrior class Hero with a reference from I Chronicles or II Samuel. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Chronicles 27:10 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common) • Background

Maharai

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: White • Ability: 6 / 2 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: May band with any warrior class Hero with a reference from I Chronicles or II Samuel. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Chronicles 27:13 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)

Benaiah

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 8 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Negate all special abilities on non-warrior class characters and non-weapon class enhancements. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Chronicles 11:22 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Rare) • Background

Philistine Armor Bearer

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 6 / 6 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: You may exchange this card with an evil Philistine in your deck or discard pile. Evil Enhancements remain in battle. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Philistia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Samuel 17:7 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 6)

Philistine Chariot and Horses

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and draw two cards. If used by a Philistine, may play an Enhancement. • Identifiers: None • Verse: I Samuel 13:5 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Foolish Advice

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: All special abilities on Character cards and enhancement cards except this one are negated and prevented. Battle is determined by the numbers. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Job 2:9 • Availability: Women booster packs (Uncommon)
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2010, 08:40:27 AM »
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You are correct.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 08:54:11 AM »
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Also it is noted that I did NOT draw Foolish Advice when I drew 2 cards as those cards would get placed back on top of my deck.
While the subject has been brought up, I would like to ask: Would Foolish Advice go back to the top of your deck if it had been one of the cards drawn with the now negated chariot?
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 08:58:25 AM »
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I believe so yes.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 08:59:52 AM »
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So...the playing of enhancements cannot be directly interrupted, but can be indirectly negated?
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 09:06:14 AM »
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I don't know true FBTN is sticky confusing soulless morass, that upon entering battle, taints everything it touches, I thought since the draw ability is separate it can be interrupted and prevented, just the playing an enhancement part cannot be.  They are 2 conditions I believe.  Its a mess that's all I know :).
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 09:08:34 AM »
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Would that not create one of those "endless loop" situations?  Meaning even if Foolish Advice was one of the cards I drew, I've already played it so how can I put it back in my deck?  So either it negates itself causing the little horsies to kick back in, or it makes the battle BBTN then you get to draw the card next turn and use it again. (Which could create a way use cards multiple times without even having to recur them!)

Offline Korunks

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 09:17:12 AM »
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I believe in that case it was ruled that the battle remains FBTN and the card returns to deck.  I just cannot fond the thread yet.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 09:26:05 AM »
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You can negate an enhancement. You cannot negate the fact that you played an enhancement.

If Claudia bands to ET and Abe's Servant is played, Abe's Servant stays played. It does not go back to hand to be played again next turn.

At least that is how I understand it.
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 09:28:50 AM »
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Abe's Servant doesn't negate banding though  :)

Abraham’s Servant to Ur

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: All special abilities except banding on characters and enhancements, except this one, are negated. Battle is determined by the numbers. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 24:9-10 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 09:29:45 AM »
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So, is it possible to use Spirit of Temptation to place Foolish Advice beneath my deck, then band to a Philistine with Chariots to keep recurring it?
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 10:50:11 AM »
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So, is it possible to use Spirit of Temptation to place Foolish Advice beneath my deck, then band to a Philistine with Chariots to keep recurring it?

You'd have to explain your thinking here. How would that be possible?

As to the other question, the playing of an enhancement cannot be interrupted, directly or indirectly. Even if FA is drawn with PC&H, it is played, and therefore doesn't go back to the draw pile. It was for situations like this that the playing of enhancements was decided to be uninterruptable.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 11:46:27 AM »
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I thought that was right!  I just needed someone with more authority than me to validate!   :P

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 12:15:45 PM »
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You'd have to explain your thinking here. How would that be possible?
It would only be possible if what you just said didn't work did work, so you answered my question. :P I may have presented it confusingly, so my bad.
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Offline 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2010, 12:51:18 PM »
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You can negate an enhancement. You cannot negate the fact that you played an enhancement.

If Claudia bands to ET and Abe's Servant is played, Abe's Servant stays played. It does not go back to hand to be played again next turn.

At least that is how I understand it.

It should due to the fact that you used it through a special ability. If you negate a special ability, it cascades. Like all other negates.
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2010, 04:32:00 PM »
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Yes but it was decided that as a game rule all play enhancement abilities are inherently "cannot be interrupted".  So once it is played it sticks in battle.  This incidentally is nice in type 2 situations like when you play a chain of Pride of Simon's and end with a Foolish Advice.

Now if you played a chain of Book of Hozai's and ended with Abe's Servant, you would negate all the drawing but all the cards would stay in battle (including any you drew in the process). 

The thing I'm not clear on is what about characters?  The rule I read specifically referred to "play enhancement" abilities but what about characters that have been played into battle?  Can the fact that they've been in battle be totally undone?  It seems a little inconsistent to me because you could have very similar ability situations with characters but I guess it would be too powerful to make them stick in battle.

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Re: Kings FBTN vs Philly Chariots
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2010, 05:00:18 PM »
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The ability of playing characters into battle (banding) can be undone. This happens everytime a band is negated. If my Jacob bands to The Strong Angel, TSA's ability negates the band and is kicked out of battle, but to avoid loop situations, it was ruled that the battle remains FBTN. This is an exceptional case, and not a hard and fast rule. Most of the time when characters are kicked out of battle by a negate, their abilities are undone, but like I said, my case is a necessary exception. So, yes, two technically different sets of rules apply to characters and enhancements, but the goal of each is the same: to avoid loops. And also, as you said, banding is different because CBI banding as a general rule would definitely be too powerful.
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