Author Topic: Household Idols Questions  (Read 2101 times)

Offline happyjosiah

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Household Idols Questions
« on: September 18, 2009, 10:53:47 AM »
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1. I have Household Idols up. My opponent's only hero is Mahari, so he cannot enter battle because he is being ignored.
So my opponent activates Covenant with Moses to negate HHI. He then makes a rescue attempt with Mahari.
I block with Red Dragon, so I am immune to him.
He plays Blessings, negating my immunity and making him strong enough to kill Red Dragon by the numbers. Note that this also negates Mahari's banding ability.
If I play Destruction of Nehustan at this point on Covenant With Moses, is Mahari ignored, or does Blessings effectively stop him from being a "banding card" since the banding is negated?

2. The REG seems to say that Transfiguration works if HHI is active since it cannot be prevented. However, wouldn't the "good banding cards have no effect" disallow this?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 11:00:14 AM »
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Mahari is still a banding card even if his banding ability is negated. He would be ignored for that battle.

Enhancements aren't ignored, only characters are ignored. HHI tries to prevent Transfig, but it cannot be prevented.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline happyjosiah

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 11:26:16 AM »
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1. Gotcha, thanks!

2. I figured it was something like that. So if I understand it correctly, if I am rescusing with a green hero against an evil character that ignores purple and I play Coat of Many Colors and AoC, the evil character's ignoring purple does nothing to help them?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 11:30:11 AM »
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The Hero is not stopped from playing purple enhancements, but purple enhancements cannot affect the EC who is ignoring purple.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline happyjosiah

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 11:40:32 AM »
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Ah okay, so Transfiguration basically works because banding cannot be ignored as it doesn't hurt the EC. In other words, the "good banding cards have no effect" would only ever apply to heroes?
What about a card like He is Risen (Interrupt the battle and set aside X Evil Characters for X turns. You may add a N.T. angel to battle.)?
This is a "good banding card." Therefore it should be ignored, stopping the part that removes the EC from battle right?
I'm confused. Can an enhancement be ignored or not?

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 11:48:09 AM »
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Ah okay, so Transfiguration basically works because banding cannot be ignored as it doesn't hurt the EC. In other words, the "good banding cards have no effect" would only ever apply to heroes?

HHI is both an ignore and a prevent. It ignores heroes with banding abilities, and prevents banding enhancments that can be prevented. Transfig is neither of those, so it works.

What about a card like He is Risen (Interrupt the battle and set aside X Evil Characters for X turns. You may add a N.T. angel to battle.)?
This is a "good banding card." Therefore it should be ignored, stopping the part that removes the EC from battle right?
I'm confused. Can an enhancement be ignored or not?

Abilities can be ignored, but enhancements can't (at least not in the same way as heroes). All that means is characters and enhancements from an ignored brigade, or enhancements played on an ignored character have no effect on the ignorer. The set-aside portion of He is Risen still works, as set-aside abilities aren't prevented by HHI. The banding ability of HIR is prevented by HHI.
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Offline happyjosiah

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 11:52:56 AM »
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Banding cards are ignored: a banding card (he is risen) can remove an evil character from battle

Purple cards are ignored: a purple card cannot remove an evil character from battle

What am I missing here?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 12:15:24 PM by happyjosiah »

browarod

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 01:13:12 PM »
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He is Risen has both a banding ability and a set aside ability. HHI would prevent the banding ability, but not the set aside ability. I believe it's one of those "do as much of the effect as you can" instances.

Offline happyjosiah

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 01:35:51 PM »
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Alright, I think I've got it now. It's all becoming clear.
Basically, ignoring an enhancement just makes an evil character immune to it, but does not stop it from working otherwise.
Thanks all!

browarod

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 01:37:11 PM »
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Basically, ignoring an enhancement just makes an evil character immune to it, but does not stop it from working otherwise.
I do believe that is the case, yes.

Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 04:19:59 PM »
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This doesn't make sense. HHI doesn't prevent banding abilities it prevents banding enhancements. He is Risen is STILL a banding card, even if the owner chooses not to band, so it SHOULD be prevented. Just like Jacob is still ignored even if you decide to play a genesis enh rather than band. If it's got a banding ability, it's a banding card, and it's prevented/ignored.

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2009, 04:21:57 PM »
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Hey,

There is some confusion in this thread regarding the differences in the effect of the ignore on Household Idols and the effect of ignore abilities in general.

Generally speaking, an ignored card (character, enhancement, or anything else) cannot target the card that is ignoring it.  Additionally an ignored character (but not an ignored enhancement) that is not in battle cannot enter battle.

Household Idols prevents good banding abilities and ignores good banding cards.

So characters with banding abilities are ignored and thus cannot enter battle because of the secondary effect of ignore stated above.  Characters with banding abilities also cannot target the card that is ignoring them (Household Idols) and their abilities are prevented by Household Idols, but those two points are generally irrelevant because when a character can't enter battle it's ability can't activate anyway.

Enhancements with banding abilities are also ignored by Household Idols.  Because enhancements are not characters they can still enter battle when Household Idols is active because the secondary effect of ignore does not affect them.  The first part of ignore does still affect them, so the banding enhancements cannot target Household Idols.  Since banding enhancements generally band and generally don't discard artifacts the first part of ignore is largely irrelevant to banding enhancements (although if a card existed that banded and discarded an artifact it would not be able to discard Household Idols).  That leave the prevent part of Household Idols as the  part of Household Idols that primarily affects good banding enhancements.  So good banding enhancements are prevented.  Since Transfiguration cannot be prevented, it works even when Household Idols is active, because none of the three effects of Household Idols apply to it.

Note that Elijah is a banding card so while Transfiguration works with Household Idols active, it can only band to Moses in such cases.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 04:23:20 PM »
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Hey,

This doesn't make sense. HHI doesn't prevent banding abilities it prevents banding enhancements.

Read Household Idols more closely (preferably the play as in the REG).  It ignores good banding cards but it only prevents good banding abilities.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Arch Angel

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Re: Household Idols Questions
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 05:06:00 PM »
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-eats slice of humble pie- Okk.

 


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