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Author Topic: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan  (Read 832 times)

Offline Korunks

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Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« on: May 18, 2013, 02:34:30 PM »
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The situation:

Iron Pan is in play

Player one rescues with a hero(ability irrelevant)

Player 2 blocks with Assyrian siege army, with another Assyrian in play, targets Player1's  good fortress and discards it.  Then claims he met the condition on Iron pan for it to be discarded.

Did he?

The special abilities:

Iron Pan: If a Babylonian is in play, negate all protect, immune, ignore, draw and play abilities. Opponent may discard a good Fortress from territory to discard this card. May be activated on Ezekiel.

Assyrian Siege Army: If blocking and another Assyrian is in play, you may negate and discard an Artifact, single color Site, or Fortress in play or set-aside area. Cannot be negated.


I mean technically, Player 2 did discard a Good fortress, but is that sufficient to pay Iron Pan? 
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2013, 03:24:37 PM »
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depends on if its (a) territory or the (opponents) territory...

If I were ruling this it would be a sacrifice effect which we dont have in Redemption but saying the opponent has to pay a cost to recieve the effect which is discarding thier own fortress.

Your interpretation of this ability lets me discard and good fortress in play to discard your Iron Pan even without ASA's ability.
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2013, 03:38:02 PM »
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For the record I ruled that it did not work that way.  This is not my interpretation but at the request of the players involved in the ruling I posted it.  The card literally says "from territory", no "a" or "your" involved but it still didn't seem correct to me.  I just want clarification of how the rule works.  I wish it was as clear as a "sacrifice" effect.
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Chris

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Re: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2013, 04:22:30 PM »
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First, I think that Pan's context makes it clear that it's referring to the territory of the player making the discard, not the territory of the holder of Pan. Second, I think that using ASA would not satisfy Iron Pan's requirements even if he discarded a fortress in his own territory.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 06:34:44 PM »
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Iron Pan's discarding a good Fortress ability is an optional cost that can be payed, it is not a trigger.

To satisfy Iron Pan's ability the Good Fortress must be discarded by Iron Pan's ability (your opponent has the option to do that) using a different card to discard a Good Fortress won't satisfy the condition.

A similar example is Unholy Writ, which says "You may discard this card to Capture a hero in battle" (this is a paraphrase of the errata, but let's assume this is correct) That means that you can, when you chose, discard Unholy Writ and (assuming it was indeed discarded) you can capture a hero. Iron Pan is essentially worded the same, the only difference is that your opponent is the one doing the discard, and the card being discarded is a Good Fortress and the ability being activated is Iron Pan discarding itself.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Ruling question MD states Iron Pan
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 09:18:48 PM »
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Quote from: ChristianSoldier on May 18, 2013, 06:34:44 PM
Iron Pan's discarding a good Fortress ability is an optional cost that can be payed, it is not a trigger.

To satisfy Iron Pan's ability the Good Fortress must be discarded by Iron Pan's ability (your opponent has the option to do that) using a different card to discard a Good Fortress won't satisfy the condition.

A similar example is Unholy Writ, which says "You may discard this card to Capture a hero in battle" (this is a paraphrase of the errata, but let's assume this is correct) That means that you can, when you chose, discard Unholy Writ and (assuming it was indeed discarded) you can capture a hero. Iron Pan is essentially worded the same, the only difference is that your opponent is the one doing the discard, and the card being discarded is a Good Fortress and the ability being activated is Iron Pan discarding itself.

This is a perfect explanation that resolves the wording on the card, and similar cards :) Someone tried to do it, and if you follow the wording in a technical matter, I could definitely see the point.  However, I'm glad that there is a logical way it is resolved that is consistent with the rules ;)
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