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Author Topic: Philistine Diviners ?s  (Read 1268 times)

browarod

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Philistine Diviners ?s
« on: May 20, 2015, 12:14:28 PM »
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Card image below with full ability. [graphic updated to reflect print version]

1. When does Diviners check whether it's CBN or not? If opponent has exactly 2 artifacts when Diviners blocks and one is underdecked by his ability is Diviners still CBN because there were 2 when he activated or is his condition not met because there's only 1 now?

2. If opponent has 3 active artifacts (say Charms on a magician, Lampstand in a temple, and anything on their artifact pile) is Diviners CBN? I wasn't sure if there was an implied "or more" in the 2 active artifacts clause (because if they have more than 2 active then they have 2 active) or if they had to have exactly 2. Answered by updated ability per Gabe's post.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 02:50:41 PM by browarod »
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Offline kram1138

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2015, 01:48:18 PM »
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I'm no expert, but my guesses would be:

1: Since CBN is an ongoing ability, it would become negatable after the artifact is underdecked.

2: As long as they have at least two it will work.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2015, 01:52:33 PM »
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There were changes to this card between the time you saw that graphic and the final printing that you will receive at State Tournaments this year.



I have my opinion on how this works, but I'd like to discuss it with my peers since I could see this go either way. I want to make sure we're consistent with how other similar abilities are ruled.
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browarod

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2015, 02:54:46 PM »
+1
The old saying is "cards either have or don't have CBN when played" so I always assumed that CBN clauses had an invisible check while the card was activating (because otherwise a prevent would prevent it even if the CBN was supposed to be active). However, I can't think offhand of any other cards that have an additional ability that affects the count for their CBN-clause so I wasn't entirely sure what to think in this case (which is why I made the thread).

My personal opinion is that it would check as Diviners enters battle (for the reason above about being prevented) and if there are 2+ artifacts at that point he would be CBN. Then, even if he underdecks an artifact and the count reduces to 1 he would remain CBN because you can't un-CBN something after it activates.

I could see it either way really. CBN/I/P abilities are traditionally at the end of special abilities for clarity but I never actually think of them as activating last.


:2cents:
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Offline yirgogo

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 04:21:14 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 20, 2015, 02:54:46 PM
The old saying is "cards either have or don't have CBN when played" so I always assumed that CBN clauses had an invisible check while the card was activating (because otherwise a prevent would prevent it even if the CBN was supposed to be active). However, I can't think offhand of any other cards that have an additional ability that affects the count for their CBN-clause so I wasn't entirely sure what to think in this case (which is why I made the thread).

My personal opinion is that it would check as Diviners enters battle (for the reason above about being prevented) and if there are 2+ artifacts at that point he would be CBN. Then, even if he underdecks an artifact and the count reduces to 1 he would remain CBN because you can't un-CBN something after it activates.

I could see it either way really. CBN/I/P abilities are traditionally at the end of special abilities for clarity but I never actually think of them as activating last.


:2cents:

I asked this same question about Samuels Edict, in this situation, and it was ruled that it was CBN, even if after the negate ability activated, there was more than 1 hero in battle.

This is the Thread about Samuel's Edict
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 05:28:26 PM »
+3
My peers have confirmed that cards have (or do not have) their cannot be negated (prevented/interrupted) status when played and it applies to the other abilities on the card. In the case of Philistine Diviners, if there are two Artifacts in play it is CBN even if his ability underdecks one of them.
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browarod

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 05:30:38 PM »
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That makes perfect sense to me and seems consistent with the current rules. Thanks for the confirmation Gabe (and peers)! :)
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kariusvega

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Re: Philistine Diviners ?s
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2015, 06:20:33 PM »
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yeah this card is amazing and has been long anticipated :)
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