Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Your first idea about 10 souls is woah no. Too many. The second idea isn't horrible. Maybe start each game with one soul on the table of your choosing. (Lol, nvm, two line abuse).

This would be problematic for site lockout decks.  It would make those strategies much more difficult, but I understand where this is comming from and agree with it on prinicple.  finding a way to ramdomly distribute LS's would be much better.  It would ensure that the best deck has a chance to prove itself.

How about this.   You take the LS's that you would have had in the deck and you randomly mix them face down and then put them in a pile face down next to your draw pile.  Each upkeep phase you draw three from your draw pile and one LS.  This means you would draw at least one LS for hte first 7 turns (8 if you played with a hopper)  You would be guarranteed a LS to go after and  you could choose the starter with a dice roll or something instead of LS count on the opening draw.  After LS's are in your LoB, then they can be shuffled into your deck via game mechanics and such (shuffler, ANB, Hormah etc.) but you would also continue to draw one off of your LS stack until they were all in play.


This would eliminate both problems of LS drought and LS flood.

I, too, have become very frustrated with this. So one of the themes running through my gold deck is to retrieve Lost Souls from my opponent whether he draws them or not (i.e. Wedding Party, the new Thankful Leper hero, etc). I don't, however, have Harvest Time (but it would probably find its way into my deck if I ever had it). The problem is that not every brigade (in fact, I'm not sure if any other than gold) has a good way to go through and get Lost Souls if their opponent is having a Lost Soul drought.

I definitely think something should be done to address this issue.

Hey,

To the OP, if player A's deck is necessarily better than player B's deck then it should include either a way to generate lost souls for player B, or the ability to hold out defensively until player B draws lost souls.  If player A's deck can do neither of those two things, then it isn't necessarily a better deck.

Quote from: FresnoRedemption on July 12, 2009, 12:51:57 AM

The problem is that not every brigade (in fact, I'm not sure if any other than gold) has a good way to go through and get Lost Souls if their opponent is having a Lost Soul drought.

Silver has Commissioned which does the same thing as wedding party but is slightly easier to play (Cherubim banded to ET), but I wouldn't consider either of those very good ways to generate lost souls.  The best ways to generate lost souls seems to be Harvest Time, Hopper, and The Amalekite's Slave. Seeker of the Lost and Hur can also work but the are of course less reliable.  My favorite way at the moment to generate lost souls for my opponent is attacking with Spy holding Warriors Spear and withdrawing each turn.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Yeah, but the problem is if you have multiple decks, it's not really feasible to use some of these cards in every single deck. Your decks would all start to feel the same after a while.

 I shouldn't have to put a hopper in every single deck. Even then it usually isn't enough even with back up things like HT, hopper, Malchus, M Slave etc... Even with all these "counters" we still have the same problem. We need to change something to make LS's more accessible.

Lol you fail Tim

Hey,

Quote

My favorite way at the moment to generate lost souls for my opponent is attacking with Spy holding Warriors Spear and withdrawing each turn.

The only problem with that is that It doesn't work.
Because Spy withdraws before the Spear can activate.

Spy does withdraw before Warriors Spear takes effect.  But I'm pretty sure that Spy withdrawing does not stop Warriors Spear from taking effect.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I think I heard that same ruling before too.

Hey,

SoulSaver, I agree that lost soul availability can play a significant role in determining who wins a given game.  And I will admit that lost soul availability can influence who wins nationals, but I disagree with the idea that they can determine who wins nationals.  An available lost soul can be the final determining factor in who wins nationals, but it is never the only determining factor.

Lost Soul availability is an aspect of luck of the draw, which as a card game Redemption cannot (and should not try to) eliminate.  Luck of the draw is part of what creates the variety in Redemption games which is a good thing.  Sometimes the luck of the draw is with you, sometimes it is against you, it's something we have to learn to deal with, accept, and hopefully - in the end - it's something we learn to enjoy.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

That's the thing though you shouldn't have to wait for eternity to rescue a lost soul. What fun is that? I think my point still stands. This lost soul issue has reared its ugly head way too many times. It's simple as this a better deck should win every time over an inferior deck, but because of the lost soul issue many great decks fall to the inferior because Points aren't available. It just isn't right. And I'm not saying eliminate the luck of the draw, just make sure there is a point available for both players so they both have equal opportunity to score almost every turn.

Again, this is very much an offensive players perspective. You want to win ASAP. Myself on the other hand... I am used to completely decking out WITHOUT speed, just because I wait for the best moment to attack. The game would get very boring if all the lost souls were out immediately. Know why? EVERYONE would switch to offense heavy decks and hope they get the first turn. That and Death of Unrighteous would become a staple... which would honestly just mess up the whole "solution" in the first place, unless you choose to ban those cards...

As far as your "what fun is that?" question... you ever played with a heavy defense deck? I find defense to be a LOT more fun than offense to be honest. Also, theres the fun of (A) mind tricks while waiting, (B) planning ahead, and (C) you can still do a lot with BCs, artifacts, etc... so theres still plenty fun to be had.

I stand firm in my believe that if you choose to play a hard hitting deck with minimal defense, you are taking the risk of not having souls to rescue.  Every deck needs to have its pros and cons. If you could make RA's 100% of the time, what disadvantage do you have?

Look at T1 Multi... Speed decks are rampant because the chance of availible lost souls is MUCH higher. From what I've seen, "balanced" decks dont do as well in that situation. I havent played it so I may be wrong but... havent most T1-Multi winners been speed decks?

You can't deny that most people seem to go crazy about offense. What have been the most complained about cards of recient years? U&T, Jake + RTC/OoN, Z Temple, TGT... all primarily offensive.

You're just taking away so much from the game if player A has a better deck, but can't beat player B's noob deck

It's simple as this a better deck should win every time over an inferior deck

I don't think I should lose to a newb.

I HIGHLY dissagree with your mentality of "best deck should always win." What is the best deck? If that was the case, EVERYONE would just play with the best deck, and newer players would always loose, because they cant build the best decks. That is not fair. The luck of the draw can give less fortinate players a chance to even the odds. Put yourself in the shoes of a new player.

uh, correct me if im wrong, but usually the point of a game is to try and win it...

Zebulun decks can win, and there is almost no way you can rush one of those on turn 1. Heroless can win, you dont use that on turn 1.

Your point?