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Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boards

JTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability.  That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it.  This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be.  So don't worry about it.

As for judges who don't spend a lot of time here on the forum, they aren't the people who host the major tournaments, and it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.  I agree that the outdatedness of the REG is frustrating, but lets not make this even more of a big deal than it needs to be.  There's already a single thread that compiles all the REG changes that need to be made, so all a host needs to do is read the REG and check 1 thread.  Is that too much to ask?

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on January 03, 2011, 11:13:25 AM

Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boards

JTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability.  That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it.  This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be.  So don't worry about it.

Citation needed

They really are not writin

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 03, 2011, 01:44:58 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on January 03, 2011, 11:13:25 AM

Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boards

JTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability.  That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it.  This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be.  So don't worry about it.

Citation needed

We have talked about this in our playgroup, I am pretty sure you were there to hear the discussions.

Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 03, 2011, 01:44:58 PM

it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.

I completely disagree with this conclusion. If a local player uses (and perfects) the same deck all year, then brings it to a state tournament and is suddenly told that his cards don't do what he thought they did, that player is now at a disadvantage with no time to compensate.

Realistically, anyone who has a chance at winning a regional or national level tournament would HAVE to be significantly a part of the broader Redemption community.  There's no way that Joe Smith can "perfect his deck" in a local environment ONLY and have any chance of success at the top levels.  He just wouldn't have been exposed to enough varieties of decks and strategies.  So 1 of 2 things will happen:

1 - Joe Smith connects here on the forum with the broader community, becomes and elite player, and along the way learns that JTower is a protect.

2 - Joe Smith dominates locally, and then loses big at the Regional tournament for a bunch of bigger reasons than just his misunderstanding of JTower.

For anyone just tuning in he's a summary,
JT is now a protect, the REG doesn't say that but it doesn't matter because every player obviously spends an hour and a half each day reading the ruling threads. (Also no one has explained why it was changed)  

<--is still waiting to know why Hezekiah's Signet Ring doesn't get special treatment although it has nearly identical wording. One gets rewritten as a restrict, yet the other remains a prevent..../confused...

No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. - JT

No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile. - Hez's Ring

Sry if this has been asked already, but is restrict and different than protect? If it isn't, why add another definition to redemption, just make it a protect.  Hezzy's signet ring has the same wording as J tower, so if one of them becomes a restrict/protect, then they both should

First a personal story...

Since this past summer, I have read precisely three threads on the Ruling Questions board.

1) Where Rob declared that the I am Holy/Chamber of Angels combo never actually worked (back when I was going to brush up to prepare to host my first tournament of the season).
2) The Windows of Narrow Light thread (posted contemporaneously with this thread which I read solely because I saw Rawrlolsauce posting on it).
3) This thread where I found out JT was a protect.

Putting aside the merits of the decisions, two out of the three threads (#1 and #3) changed rulings that had been in place ever since I started playing. What other major ruling changes have I missed? I don't know and I know of no way to find out without going through and spending a considerable amount of time wading through the 500 or so threads that have cropped up since the summer.

The majority of the elders have as much control over getting the REG updated as you do.  So what would you like us to do?

I have two suggestions...

First, the PtB could limit the number of apparently arbitrary ruling changes[1].

Second, some member of the PtB could actually create a single board/thread/rss feed/something where someone can find the actual rulings without having to spend X hours a week reading the boards in order to try to keep up to date.

[1]I just read (for the first time that I recall) Bryon's explanation of why Jersualem Tower was changed to a protect. The explanation boils down to--JT could have gone down as either a prevent or a protect. Years ago we decided to make it a prevent. "In retrospect, I don't think that was the best choice," so now we are going to rule it the other way. Moreoever, if you go back to Bryon's explanation of why the JT change was made you could substitute "Hezekiah's Signet Ring" everywhere you find "Jerusalem Tower" and the exact same logic would work. So this ruling is arbitrary in both how it was made and how it effects other rulings.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on January 03, 2011, 11:13:25 AM

Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boards

As for judges who don't spend a lot of time here on the forum, they aren't the people who host the major tournaments, and it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.

Thank you for answering my question. I now understand that a requirement to serve as a host is to spend X hours a week reading these boards.

I agree that the outdatedness of the REG is frustrating, but lets not make this even more of a big deal than it needs to be.  There's already a single thread that compiles all the REG changes that need to be made, so all a host needs to do is read the REG and check 1 thread.  Is that too much to ask?

Which thread is that? I know it's not the "REG Updates" thread, the "OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread" or the "OFFICIAL REG Corrections" thread, because none of them mention that Jersualem Tower is a protect--which overturned half a decade or more of established rulings. I did check the REG before posting initially, but the fact is (as Bryon noted in his original announcement) that both JT's SA and Play As in the REG are still worded as a prevent so it didn't really help me.

A single authoritative source in addition to the REG could well be manageable, Currently, however, such a beast does not exist.

Wait I am Holy and Chamber of Angels doesn't work? Darn...

It's never worked, we just didn't know that

true. and i still want to here explanation on hezzy ring too.

I got a shout out .
This is also the earliest I've woken up in months .
Coincidence?

Probably.

I specifically said "state" for a reason.

I agree that this could happen at a "state" level tourney, because depending on the state, that competition might not be much different than a local or district tourney.  However, I repeat that knowing all the nuance rulings like JTower is not going to be what determines whether someone wins at the Regional or National level, and that is what determines the RNRS champions and the National champions, so really all other tourneys won't make that big of a difference.

Let the real PtB's know that the current system is not working.

Done already.

Which thread is that? I know it's not the "REG Updates" thread, the "OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread" or the "OFFICIAL REG Corrections" thread, because none of them mention that Jersualem Tower is a protect

Actually if that ruling were made more recently it would be in the OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread.  The problem is that the JTower ruling was made just before Nats, and announced just after Nats, and the ONRAT wasn't created until around Thanksgiving.  I just asked Guardian to add the JTower ruling to clear this up, but going forward any other big ruling changes should be easily found there.

Considering how similarly Hezzy's Ring and JT are worded, it seems illogical to treat them differently.

This is currently being discussed by the Elders.

When the new REG comes out, would it be possible for all of the Elders to have access to it for edits? That would greatly speed up the response time when something needs to be changed.