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A card can target something that is not in play when it specifies somewhere out of play. So if ASA can taget cards in play and set-aside.
If a card doesn't specifie, if it is simply says discard a hero then it defaults to play.

This brings up the question though, why does LotS protect from mayhem.

Quote from: CJSports on January 29, 2012, 05:14:36 PM

A card can target something that is not in play when it specifies somewhere out of play. So if ASA can taget cards in play and set-aside.
If a card doesn't specifie, if it is simply says discard a hero then it defaults to play.

This brings up the question though, why does LotS protect from mayhem.

It doesn't any more.

However, doesn't Lampy protect from FA?

So does Gates even work?

The Gates of Hell (TP)

Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add your demon to the battle. • Play As: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add to battle your demon. • Identifiers: Play to set-aside area. • Verse: Matthew 16:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Yes: The "it" refers directly to a card out of play, and therefore the discard does get insteaded (And Birth Foretold protects SoG).
No: Instead abilities, like all abilities default to "in play" and therefore Gates cannot instead itself.

Yes it does, because Lampy specifies "not in battle" which is any card face up on the table, which is not in battle (obviously).

But your cards in hand are "not in battle either" so why does lampy not protect from mayhem also.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 29, 2012, 05:26:58 PM

Yes it does, because Lampy specifies "not in battle" which is any card face up on the table, which is not in battle (obviously).

But your cards in hand are "not in battle either" so why does lampy not protect from mayhem also.

Because that's what the Elders decided the definition of "Not in battle" should be. Personally, I don't agree with it; I think that not in battle should include all cards, in play or not in play, that are not in battle, however, the Elders ruled this differently, and thus, the definition is roughly, "Any card face up on the table not currently in a battle."

Great Image becomes OP.

Great Image says "In Play".

Quote from: lp670sv on January 30, 2012, 03:54:05 PM

Quote from: CJSports on January 30, 2012, 03:52:04 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on January 29, 2012, 05:26:58 PM

Yes it does, because Lampy specifies "not in battle" which is any card face up on the table, which is not in battle (obviously).

But your cards in hand are "not in battle either" so why does lampy not protect from mayhem also.

Hand is not in play.

But neither is LoR. This logic honestly makes no sense to me. Not yours lp, just in general.

I had a lot of problems with it too, but it comes down to the Elders giving "not in battle" a very specific definition. Lampstand's ability doesn't default to in play because it specifies a specific location - not in battle.

I'm quite unsure if I should like or dislike that post.

So does Gates even work?

The Gates of Hell (TP)

Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add your demon to the battle. • Play As: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add to battle your demon. • Identifiers: Play to set-aside area. • Verse: Matthew 16:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Yes: The "it" refers directly to a card out of play, and therefore the discard does get insteaded (And Birth Foretold protects SoG).
No: Instead abilities, like all abilities default to "in play" and therefore Gates cannot instead itself.

Still waiting for answer.

I think that the use of "instead" there is not the "instead" in terms of a game terminology, but the English word. It's saying "do X, but if Y, do Z instead," not "do X, then instead X to Z if Y."

Is this supposed to be a serious answer?

On a somewhat similar note (well, not really, but I don't want to start a new thread for this), I vote that we accept that "or" on Redemption cards is the Boolean operator "or".

Yes. That sounds like an absolute blast. Isn't that the a major point of Redemption anyway? FUN?