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Offline Watchman

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Job and discard
« on: May 09, 2018, 12:47:45 PM »
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Promo Job reads "Protect Job from capture and discard."

On the more contemporary cards they are worded "from discard abilities," which specifies that they are protected from those abilities but can be discarded by the numbers.  With Job's wording, however, it appears he is also protected from discard if he loses by the numbers (whether by lower numbers than blockers or by mutual destruction).  Is this correct? 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 12:57:19 PM by Watchman492 »
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 12:56:54 PM »
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As I understand it the change to "discard abilities" was a rule change on what all instances of protection from discard means. The wording difference is just clarification regarding that change. Assuming that's correct, Job and all other characters who just say "protected from discard" are only protected from discard abilities.
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kariusvega

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 12:58:55 PM »
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Quote from: Kevinthedude on May 09, 2018, 12:56:54 PM
As I understand it the change to "discard abilities" was a rule change on what all instances of protection from discard means. The wording difference is just clarification regarding that change. Assuming that's correct, Job and all other characters who just say "protected from discard" are only protected from discard abilities.

this is my understanding as well.

protected from discard means protected from discard abilities, not game rule- for example, decrease to /0
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Offline YeshuaIsLord

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 01:04:33 PM »
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So he could be defeated by the numbers or by decrease or toss?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 01:07:34 PM »
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Quote from: YeshuaIsLord on May 09, 2018, 01:04:33 PM
So he could be defeated by the numbers or by decrease or toss?

Yes.
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kariusvega

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 01:08:18 PM »
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Quote from: YeshuaIsLord on May 09, 2018, 01:04:33 PM
So he could be defeated by the numbers or by decrease or toss?

Correct. His protection from discard relates to cards like "Christian Martyr" where it specifically targets him with a discard ability.

Decrease, yes. Toss, yes- and keep in mind toss is regardless of protection. So in the event of "protected from opponents" toss decrease still applies.
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Offline YeshuaIsLord

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 01:18:08 PM »
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Quote from: kariusvega on May 09, 2018, 01:08:18 PM
Toss, yes- and keep in mind toss is regardless of protection. So in the event of "protected from opponents" toss decrease still applies.
Would that mean I could defeat a card that's immune or is ignoring my character?
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Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2018, 01:20:11 PM »
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Can you give a specific example? it depends on the exact wording.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 01:21:49 PM »
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Immune and protect are the same thing, so toss decreases through immune. Ignore is something different, so toss will not decrease through ignore.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 01:31:28 PM »
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Then why specify “discard abilities” and other times “discard?” The extra word could have easily been added to his ability since there was ample room.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2018, 01:36:03 PM »
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That change only occurred very recently (I believe right before RoJ released).
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2018, 01:39:45 PM »
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Quote from: Watchman492 on May 09, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
Then why specify “discard abilities” and other times “discard?” The extra word could have easily been added to his ability since there was ample room.

Going forward cards will all say "discard abilities". This is also one of the most common things ORCID play-as adds since the added "abilities" applies not just to discard but to capture and basically every other ability you can be protected from.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »
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The change happened after Nationals 2016. Linked announcement.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2018, 04:02:22 PM »
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Quote from: Kevinthedude on May 09, 2018, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: Watchman492 on May 09, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
Then why specify “discard abilities” and other times “discard?” The extra word could have easily been added to his ability since there was ample room.

Going forward cards will all say "discard abilities". This is also one of the most common things ORCID play-as adds since the added "abilities" applies not just to discard but to capture and basically every other ability you can be protected from.

Going forward from where? Job was just released last year while cards like CoW Joseph (which protects other sons of Jacob from discard abilities) was released in 2016. It would be best to just stick with one term or the other so as to avoid confusion. 
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 04:23:03 PM »
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Quote from: Watchman492 on May 09, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
It would be best to just stick with one term or the other so as to avoid confusion.

Ideally yes but if the game has an important rule change sometimes card abilities have to update their wording to reflect it.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Job and discard
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2018, 04:39:03 PM »
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Job (capture and discard) and Behemoth (capture) both dropped "abilities" last year, but Ahimaaz (capture, underdeck and set-aside abilities) and Harbingers (discard abilities) used it this year. We SHOULD use "abilities" at the end of such protection going forward, but cards may slip through.
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