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Author Topic: Jerusalem (PC Site)  (Read 1185 times)

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Jerusalem (PC Site)
« on: August 28, 2015, 09:43:23 PM »
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Jerusalem:
Negate Site access on N.T. humans.  If a N.T. Lost Soul is rescued from this Site, capture all rescuing human Heroes.

Does "rescuing" mean all heroes involved in the rescue attempt, or just heroes that had access to the site?

If your opponent had Jerusalem in their territory with a N.T. LS and rescued with humans, would playing SoG/NJ on that LS result in the capture of the rescuers?
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Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 10:09:09 PM »
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it is whatever heroes where in battle. as for the dominant thing, I am not sure.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2015, 11:44:09 PM »
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In order for the Heroes to be "rescuing Heroes" of that soul, they would need to be awarded it as a result of the battle.  If you use a dominant on the soul, any Heroes that are in battle should not be considered targets to my knowledge, because that soul would not be eligible as a choice for them to rescue (it could not be an attempt for that soul since it is being rescued through an ability).
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2015, 07:28:12 PM »
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I found 3 other cards that use the term "rescuing hero(es)":

Lost Soul (Fool):
When this Lost Soul is rescued, if you played an evil Enhancement during that battle, discard all rescuing Heroes.

Idle Gossip:
Holder chooses a Hero in play to fight the rescuing Hero. The loser is discarded.

Christian Suing Another:
Holder interrupts the battle and chooses a Hero in play to fight the rescuing Hero. The loser is discarded.

"Rescuing Hero" on the side battle cards can't really mean anything but heroes currently participating in a rescue attempt.  For the Fool LS, "that battle" helps restrict it to only activating when rescued via battle.  Jerusalem doesn't have anything like that as a further indicator - maybe if it said "... rescued from this Site by a Hero, ..." (or "as a result of a battle", or something), if would be more like Fool LS.

What Redoubter said is almost undoubtedly what was intended, I'm just not sure that's what it actually says.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2015, 08:25:13 PM »
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Quote from: RedemptionAggie on August 29, 2015, 07:28:12 PM
"Rescuing Hero" on the side battle cards can't really mean anything but heroes currently participating in a rescue attempt
...
What Redoubter said is almost undoubtedly what was intended, I'm just not sure that's what it actually says.

The ability for Idle Gossip is an extremely old ability that has wording for a side battle that would not be 'modern'.  To my knowledge, nothing about it has been ruled to have it only work in an RA, since it is by definition a side battle (per the entry for that ability), and so the precedent we have for that card does not invalidate what I gave as a ruling for Jerusalem.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2015, 06:09:27 PM »
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I misspoke (or mistyped, maybe).  But then what is the 'modern' phrasing for a similar ability, where you have to target a hero in battle?  Hero in battle?

That kind of feels wrong too - can a Taunting Goliath use Christian Suing Another (or Idle Gossip - the ITB on CSA just makes it easier to use) to create a side battle with an occupied Ashdod allowing him to use other brigades?
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 08:23:12 PM »
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Not that it matters because I think there are other ways to accomplish the same scenario and it doesn't really answer your question, but both Idle Gossip and Christian Suing Another are N.T. and therefore can't be used with Ashdod.

I could be mistaken, but I believe the "modern phrasing" would be "a Hero in battle" rather than "a rescuing Hero".
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2015, 09:30:10 PM »
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Yep, other ways - like Moral Decline with Ashdod (as Mask of Worldliness is N.T.) or Love of Money, then the side battle card.  I just completed missed the O.T. part when checking the card.

Then the next question is, does "blocking Evil Character"* (at least on good cards) translate as something similar - "EC in battle"?  The new Stronger than Men was just printed with that phrasing (well, with a limitation).  Visions, Struck with Blindness, Death of Firstborn, and Lion Dwelling with the Calf also use the phrase.  Interceding for Battle doesn't really fit in either category (see *).

Stronger than Men:
Hero ignores all blocking human Evil Characters.

*"If/When/While ... blocking/blocked" and "blocker" should just refer to blocking ECs, I think.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Jerusalem (PC Site)
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 01:03:52 AM »
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I have always assumed that "rescuing Hero" can only refer to a Hero involved in a rescue attempt. I don't see a reason why that shouldn't be the case, and I think that if Idle Gossip or CSA are played in a battle challenge, they don't work. It is old wording, but I also see no logical reason to say that a Hero can be a rescuing Hero if they are in a battle challenge.

As for blocking/blockers, that should refer to an EC in battle during a rescue attempt or battle challenge.
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