Author Topic: Is Tartaros an instead ability?  (Read 1369 times)

Offline Korunks

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Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« on: January 29, 2013, 08:43:18 PM »
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Having trouble finding an online source of the card, since the redemption visualizer does not allow copy and paste of card text.  Where do we go to find text now?

So is Tartaros an instead and how would it work vs wandering spirit if it is?

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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:23:01 PM »
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Having trouble finding an online source of the card, since the redemption visualizer does not allow copy and paste of card text.  Where do we go to find text now?

Your own two hands :D
Yeah, I don't know of anywhere else right now :(

So is Tartaros an instead and how would it work vs wandering spirit if it is?

Tartaros
All demons that holder captures, discards, or has in Land of Bondage are placed in Tartaros.  Release one demon to holder's territory from Tartaros when one of holder's demons wins in battle.

Wandering Spirit (Priests)
Reveal the bottom card of deck.  If it is a demon, put it in your territory.  May band to a generic demon.  If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead.  Cannot be negated.

The ruling we had is that Tartaros wins (as long as it was in play before WS entered battle).

Though as I said in that thread, and I say now, can someone actually post where the rule is that the first card to hit the table and activate wins?  And as was brought up there, why not just have a hierarchy?

Never got directed to a rule or had an Elder come flat-out and say anything along those lines, though we did get this ruled already ;)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 09:24:40 PM »
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Yes, Tartaros has an implied "instead" ability. Since Tartaros was active before Wandering Spirit's ability activated, I believe WS would go to Tartaros if you discarded him. I'm not 100% certain on this, but I believe it's similar to the Dungeon of Malchiah/Raider's Camp situation (i.e. the ability that was active first takes precedence).

Edit* Now you have an Elder confirming that ruling.  8)
Fortress Alstad
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 09:33:47 PM »
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Edit* Now you have an Elder confirming that ruling.  8)

First, thank you for confirming that :D I appreciate it, I prefer to see things like that somewhere on the boards or in the rules ;)

Would the Elders be opposed to a hierarchy of abilities, as far as which cards have priority?  As I stated in the other thread referenced, there is at least one situation possible now (TToD vs Kir) where the order of cards played cannot be sufficiently determined by a Judge (which I say is bad ;)), and what happens if a card is negated?  Does it's "I hit in X order" get knocked to the 'end of the line'?  And cards like Lost Souls, Sites, and Fortresses have all been ruled to be continuously activating, which means that in terms of which activated first, they are always reactivating last (essentially, compared to some other types of cards like characters).  They hit the table first, but not 'activate' first (if that makes sense).

I'll make sure to reference this thread for the rule in the future, but as far as my opinion is worth, hitting the table first is not as concise a rule as it should be.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 09:38:46 PM »
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TToD vs Kir is a tricky one. I will bring that up on the playtester side to see if we can iron something out that makes sense.

Quote
hitting the table first is not as concise a rule as it should be.

If there's only one combination that makes it difficult, I think it's a rule best left as is...can you think of other scenarios like TToD vs Kir?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 09:42:07 PM by The Guardian »
Fortress Alstad
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 10:19:35 PM »
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If there's only one combination that makes it difficult, I think it's a rule best left as is...can you think of other scenarios like TToD vs Kir?

As long as we don't get crazy with the technicalities like the second part of that paragraph? ;) I haven't found another example.  However, I wouldn't be surprised to find anymore, we'll have new cards in the future, and really even the situation I gave should have a hierarchy.  IMO :)

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 10:26:10 PM »
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TToD vs Weakness.
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Red Warrior

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 10:31:21 PM »
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So while we're on "hierarchy"... where are we at currently with TToD vs. Evil Play abilities in battle (Horses, Jeering Youth)?
-Joey

Red was always playable :)

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 10:35:13 PM »
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So while we're on "hierarchy"... where are we at currently with TToD vs. Evil Play abilities in battle (Horses, Jeering Youth)?

I was fairly certain that it had been ruled that any evil abilities on characters and enhancements MUST activate completely before TToD may go off.  The reason is that characters are not in battle (blocking, in this case) until the SA on the character and weapons and therefore any chained abilities (banding, play next, etc.) complete fully.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Is Tartaros an instead ability?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 10:39:39 PM »
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Horses don't matter since TToD wouldn't activate anyway. In Jeering Youth vs TToD, Redoubter is correct.
Fortress Alstad
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Have you looked it up in ORCID?

 


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