Author Topic: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?  (Read 3851 times)

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2013, 08:20:28 AM »
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Say my opponent is playing red+chosen variant. It makes a huge difference if I can't remember if they played A Soldiers Prayer to get Bravery back yet or searched for a separate card. I'm holding a chump block and a battle winner. And I'm down to my last evil character. Now what do I play? Let me just check my notes...

That's seems pretty lame to me. And yes being able to filter several levels of info at one time is a skill.

I actually don't like notes. I just don't get the discard pile thing. If we can look at the discard pile, the game will take a lot less time because you don't have to sit there for 1+ min thinking about whether or not ASP was played.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2013, 09:17:06 AM »
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I think not allowing notes is an unwritten rule (no pun intended) of all card games. Part of the challenge of card games is to remember what was played, especially games like Hearts and Rack-o. I'm sure that casinos won't let you take notes.  ;)

Now I realize that Redemption in not the same as those other games, and there is no reason for it to be governed the same way, but I think the expectation of no note-taking filters from the idea that it is not allowed in any card game normally. If we are going to make a rule, then I vote for no note-taking. If it is going to be treated as a host-discretion rule, then I will not allow it at my tournaments.

Realize that I am saying this as someone who has a terrible memory, and has lost games because I forgot what had already been played. But, as a host, I really do not want to have to monitor what players are writing on paper to see if it is appropriate. And regardless of the expectation of Redemption's audience, I know someone is going to abuse it if I allow it, because Murphy's Law always applies at my tournaments. I guess I just bring out the worst in people.  :o

However, I will reiterate that I think we should make the rule that a player may look at his own Discard Pile once per turn (or is it round?  ;) ), but you may only look at your opponent's Discard Pile with a special ability.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 09:24:22 AM by YourMathTeacher »
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 11:07:42 AM »
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I think not allowing notes is an unwritten rule (no pun intended) of all card games. Part of the challenge of card games is to remember what was played, especially games like Hearts and Rack-o. I'm sure that casinos won't let you take notes.  ;)

Now I realize that Redemption in not the same as those other games, and there is no reason for it to be governed the same way, but I think the expectation of no note-taking filters from the idea that it is not allowed in any card game normally. If we are going to make a rule, then I vote for no note-taking. If it is going to be treated as a host-discretion rule, then I will not allow it at my tournaments.

You can write down whatever you want during MtG games. Additionally the discard pile is public knowledge in MtG. Redemption has differed from MtG in these areas and that is fine.

Quote from: MtG Rulebook
Players are allowed to take written notes during a match and may refer to those notes while that match is in progress. At the beginning of a match, each players note sheet must be empty and must remain visible throughout the match. Players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players. Judges may ask to see a players notes and/or request that the player explain his or her notes.

Kirk
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 11:26:55 AM by Captain Kirk »
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2013, 11:47:03 AM »
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Looking at Discard Piles and Notes is allowed in both Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh as well I believe. I think notes is overdoing it, but I don't get why see what's been played prior isn't common knowledge, especially when I can't fail search.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2013, 11:52:42 AM »
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You can write down whatever you want during MtG games. Additionally the discard pile is public knowledge in MtG.

Oh, I see. I forget that so many Redemption players are MtG players. I was speaking from the old-fashioned 52-card deck card games, and other old-time games. These, of course, were before CCGs came out, but I've been to Pokemon tournaments and never noticed any notes. I have never played MtG so I was unaware of such a rule.

Regardless, I still stand by my post. I'm just giving my  :2cents: while the PtBs decide what is law.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2013, 11:56:40 AM »
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You can write down whatever you want during MtG games. Additionally the discard pile is public knowledge in MtG.

Oh, I see. I forget that so many Redemption players are MtG players. I was speaking from the old-fashioned 52-card deck card games, and other old-time games. These, of course, were before CCGs came out, but I've been to Pokemon tournaments and never noticed any notes. I have never played MtG so I was unaware of such a rule.

Regardless, I still stand by my post. I'm just giving my  :2cents: while the PtBs decide what is law.

You are correct that most pokemon players don't take notes. It is technically allowed though.

I agreed with the large majority of your last post.

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2013, 12:06:18 PM »
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Tim,

I (like Alex) also agree with most of what you said. I just felt I should point out that there is precedent from other games of what can be allowed.

I sometimes find it hard to remember what Judges are in my discard pile and which are still in my deck, especially when playing Type 2. :) I think that not being able to view discard piles at any time makes the game more challenging. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable.

Kirk
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2013, 12:53:56 PM »
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I just felt I should point out that there is precedent from other games of what can be allowed.

I agree that it should be mentioned since I was completely unaware.

I sometimes find it hard to remember what Judges are in my discard pile and which are still in my deck, especially when playing Type 2. :)

LOL. I don't play T2 either, so I am beginning to see how narrow-minded my opinion is after all.  :o

I'll tell you where notes would be most helpful for me - Booster Draft, while I'm drafting. I can never remember if I drafted a Pale Green character back in the blue pack by the time I open the pack that has Death of Unrighteous. I actually usually have forgotten what colors I was saving by the time I open the next pack.  ;)
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Is Deck/Discard a Known Location?
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2013, 02:33:20 PM »
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I know the Hobbit brought up the idea of notes awhile ago, and I think Rob said he had no problem with it; but I can't find the thread. IMO, if it's not spelled out in the tournament guide, it should be up to the host/judge. I would allow it at any tournament I hosted/judged, presuming it didn't become too much of a timing issue, but I think hosts/judges should have the right to not allow it if they prefer.

I personally don't care either way about viewing the discard pile (I have a great memory, or at least I think I do...I know I used to...or maybe not...anyway) but if the new rulebook is finalized (which I think it is) then that's the rules. I know it hasn't always been that way (which is why RTS doesn't require a check to look at a discard pile, since there was no such rule when it was created) but for whatever reason the rule has changed.
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