Author Topic: Iron Pan (Read 3072 times)

Josh · « **on:** July 10, 2011, 12:23:00 PM »

My opponent has Iron Pan on Ezekiel in territory. I attack with Watchful Servant after my opponent has decked. I have Magic Charms on one of my magicians, so I discard it to capture Ezekiel. Does Iron Pan continue to be placed on Ezekiel while he is in my land of bondage, and does it's special ability still work?

Iron Pan - Negate all ignore, etc. abilities. Identifier: May be activated on Ezekiel.

Smokey · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2011, 07:24:07 PM »

I'm 90% sure placed cards are discarded when holder is captured, but I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be negated until the next phase.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:32:00 PM »

Smokey would be correct here. Even if something is discarded, the effect lasts until the end of the phase.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 10, 2011, 08:32:00 PM

Even if something is discarded, the effect lasts until the end of the phase.

Except souls.

And now it's the time where someone disagrees.

And now it's the time where I say that's just what I've been told by Maly.

And now it's the time where someone argues.

And now it's the time where I flip tables.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:06:00 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM

And now it's the time where someone disagrees.

Smokey · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:08:15 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM

And now it's the time where someone agrees.

spicynumber1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2011, 11:00:36 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 10, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
Even if something is discarded, the effect lasts until the end of the phase.
Except souls.

Is this true?

lp670sv · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2011, 11:10:34 PM »

I don't think so. You haven't negated their special ability, it stays active through the current phase. I'm guessing the two people who quoted the disagreement were stating that they disagreed with the first statement. So they agree with me.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2011, 06:11:17 PM »

Lost Souls are not an exception to this rule. They also remain active until the end of the phase if Discarded.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2011, 07:22:55 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on July 10, 2011, 11:10:34 PM

I don't think so. You haven't negated their special ability, it stays active through the current phase. I'm guessing the two people who quoted the disagreement were stating that they disagreed with the first statement. So they agree with me.

Actually Smokey is agreeing with me.

lp670sv · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2011, 09:39:51 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 13, 2011, 07:22:55 PM

Quote from: lp670sv on July 10, 2011, 11:10:34 PM
I don't think so. You haven't negated their special ability, it stays active through the current phase. I'm guessing the two people who quoted the disagreement were stating that they disagreed with the first statement. So they agree with me.
Actually Smokey is agreeing with me.

sorry, missed that he changed it to agreeing

Josh · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:27:27 AM »

Quote from: Smokey on July 10, 2011, 07:24:07 PM

I'm 90% sure placed cards are discarded when holder is captured, but I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be negated until the next phase.

Well this can't be true, because I posed a question (that actually happened in a tourney last month) where a Herod with Herod's Treachery on him was converted by my Holy Grail, then captured with my Magic Charms, and later my opponent discarded HT from the Herod while he was in my land of bondage to stop a rescue. We ruled that it was a legal play, and elders confirmed it when I posted the question here.

So if Iron Pan stays on Ezekiel (since that is what the identifier allows), since Ezekiel is still Ezekiel even when he is captured, does it continue to work forever if it isn't negated/discarded/etc.?

Smokey · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2011, 01:25:43 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on July 15, 2011, 11:27:27 AM

Quote from: Smokey on July 10, 2011, 07:24:07 PM
I'm 90% sure placed cards are discarded when holder is captured, but I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be negated until the next phase.
Well this can't be true, because I posed a question (that actually happened in a tourney last month) where a Herod with Herod's Treachery on him was converted by my Holy Grail, then captured with my Magic Charms, and later my opponent discarded HT from the Herod while he was in my land of bondage to stop a rescue. We ruled that it was a legal play, and elders confirmed it when I posted the question here.

So if Iron Pan stays on Ezekiel (since that is what the identifier allows), since Ezekiel is still Ezekiel even when he is captured, does it continue to work forever if it isn't negated/discarded/etc.?

I'm still 90% sure that was ruled incorrectly.
What I'm 90% sure about (90% of the time)

Placed cards follow to: Deck, hand, discard, removal from the game, set-aside
Placed cards are discarded when: captured

Arch Angel · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2011, 01:54:39 PM »

Also, doesn't Herod's Treachery read that you can discard it from "YOUR" Herod? If your Herod is captured by your opponent, then you no longer control it. Since "your" means ownership and control, you couldn't use the ability anyways.

Josh · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2011, 02:42:36 PM »

Quote from: Arch Angel on July 15, 2011, 01:54:39 PM

Also, doesn't Herod's Treachery read that you can discard it from "YOUR" Herod? If your Herod is captured by your opponent, then you no longer control it. Since "your" means ownership and control, you couldn't use the ability anyways.

Herod's Treachery says "You may discard this card to force X heroes to withdraw". The only condition (a Herod) is for the placement. Once it's there, you can discard it at anytime.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2011, 06:42:53 PM »

I have never heard that captured cards shed cards placed on them. I don't know what reason you'd have for playing it that way. Captured WC Characters lose their weapons, but weapons and placed cards are not the same thing or even similar.

Smokey · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2011, 07:56:43 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 15, 2011, 06:42:53 PM

I have never heard that captured cards shed cards placed on them. I don't know what reason you'd have for playing it that way. Captured WC Characters lose their weapons, but weapons and placed cards are not the same thing or even similar.

Maybe that is what I was thinking of (hence 90%).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2011, 02:11:47 PM »

Yeah, I think it's a fairly common mistake to make. Weapons get shed because of a specific game rule regarding weapons (which is also why they get Discarded when their bearer is shuffled).

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2011, 12:40:25 PM »

Can we get elder input on the lost soul question? Does their ability end when they're removed or does it stay active until the end of the phase? I'd prefer it to be the ladder, but I've been told the former.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2011, 01:03:36 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on July 29, 2011, 12:40:25 PM

Can we get elder input on the lost soul question? Does their ability end when they're removed or does it stay active until the end of the phase? I'd prefer it to be the ladder, but I've been told the former.

I would assume that unless specifically specified (while in play, while this card remains, place...:, etc.) all cards that have active special abilities by virtue of being in play (i.e. Artifacts, Fortresses, single-color sites, placed enhancements, and Lost Souls) should all be treated similarly. That is, I would say that an LS's ability is active throughout the phase where the LS was taken out of play, except in the above specifications.

Ryupeco11 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:58:08 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 16, 2011, 02:11:47 PM

Yeah, I think it's a fairly common mistake to make. Weapons get shed because of a specific game rule regarding weapons (which is also why they get Discarded when their bearer is shuffled).

I knew that weapons were discarded when captured but i wasn't aware that they were discarded when the character was shuffled. if that is the case then i have been playing that wrong. can you point me to a thread that states it so i can be sure(and be sure to let friends know ^_^)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2011, 11:20:07 PM »

It may be on the card insert that comes with Kings. It's not a new ruling nor is it a generally disputed one, so there may not be much chatter on the Threads about it. If there is, your search function works just as well as mine (i.e. not at all =D)

Ryupeco11 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2011, 10:20:30 AM »

ok thanks i'll look through my inserts later. I guess i was confusing them for placed cards or something but i've always shuffled weapons when the character was shuffled.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 01, 2011, 11:20:07 PM

If there is, your search function works just as well as mine (i.e. not at all =D)

yes either my search function or my ability to search is horrible ^_^

Josh · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2011, 10:02:06 PM »

Now that we got Elder input on a question not exactly related to the original question... Can I activate Iron Pan on my captured Ezekiel in a land of bondage? And for that matter, can I activate Iron Pan on my opponent's Ezekiel (either in territory or land of bondage)?

News:

Author Topic: Iron Pan (Read 3072 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

lp670sv

Rawrlolsauce!

lp670sv

Rawrlolsauce!