Author Topic: Intiative vs. Dominants  (Read 1646 times)

Offline Korunks

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Intiative vs. Dominants
« on: May 26, 2011, 10:24:37 AM »
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Scenario:

Player 1 Rescues

Plater 2 Blocks

Player 2 Says: "Since I have initiative, I'll play X) while simultaneously playing an Evil Enhancement, Player 1 starts to play Angel of the Lord at the same time as well.  The Evil Enhancement hit the Table first.  I ruled that the evil enhancement took precendence since it hit first.  But I am extremely unsure of my conclusion.  Also this scenario was pieced together from the players since I did not witness the initial exchange.  After thinking about it overnight I think that I was probably wrong.  Was I wrong?
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 10:46:41 AM »
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I have made it a practice to ask for initiative so that if my opponent want's to play a dominant, they may. Not sure if that is a rule or not...

If the initiative is acknowledged by player 1 and then player 2 plays an enhancement, then the enhancement must resolve before a dominant can be played. There are no dominants that will interrupt an enhancement. I would have ruled that both are played with the enhancement resolving and then the dominant resolving. I would have then instructed both players to ask for initiative before throwing cards down all willy nilly. It saves a lot of headaches.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 10:50:13 AM by uthminister [BR] »

Offline Korunks

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 11:04:38 AM »
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I have made it a practice to ask for initiative so that if my opponent want's to play a dominant, they may. Not sure if that is a rule or not...

Unfortunatly this is not a current rule.

If the initiative is acknowledged by player 1 and then player 2 plays an enhancement, then the enhancement must resolve before a dominant can be played. There are no dominants that will interrupt an enhancement. I would have ruled that both are played with the enhancement resolving and then the dominant resolving. I would have then instructed both players to ask for initiative before throwing cards down all willy nilly. It saves a lot of headaches.

I am not sure if letting the enhancement resolve first is correct because the rescuing player has a "right" to respond to the block with a dominant before an enhancement is played.  At least according to my current understanding of the rules, and in this case when the enhancement resolved there was no Dominant to be played.  I am uncomfortable instructing tournament players to "check" for initiative in an official tournament because it is not currently an official rule.
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 11:58:54 AM »
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While it is not a written rule, it's good etiquette and good sportsmanship to request initiative before playing an enhancement. Honestly, I would probably have ruled that Player 2 needed to pick up their enhancement and request initiative, at which point Player 1 could play AotL. My feeling is that any ruling other than this encourages playing dirty and dishonorably. I know for a fact that many tournament judges would rule this way as well.

Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 12:06:56 PM »
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You're not allowed to play enhancements until all players concede that you're allowed to do so (or a special ability says to). If the opponent understands he wants to play Angel of the Lord before you play an enhancement, you must allow him to do so. Blocking with the EC and playing the enhancement immediately isn't legal unless an ability allows you to do so.

This doesn't have to be in the form of asking "is it my initiative?", waiting before playing also works.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 12:10:36 PM by Rawrlolsauce! »

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 12:06:58 PM »
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I just have a problem with that. This is a Christian card game, and rulings that promote the use of dirty tactics that are unexpected (due to most players having the decency to ask) are not becoming to the game.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 12:21:40 PM »
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You're not allowed to play enhancements until all players concede that you're allowed to do so (or a special ability says to). If the opponent understands he wants to play Angel of the Lord before you play an enhancement, you must allow him to do so. Blocking with the EC and playing the enhancement immediately isn't legal unless an ability allows you to do so.

This doesn't have to be in the form of asking "is it my initiative?", waiting before playing also works.

I agree in general, however, I think that asking for initiative is the best way. This avoids both questions of "how much waiting time is sufficient?" and "which one takes place if it can be determined which hit the table first?"
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 12:25:22 PM »
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You're not allowed to play enhancements until all players concede that you're allowed to do so (or a special ability says to). If the opponent understands he wants to play Angel of the Lord before you play an enhancement, you must allow him to do so. Blocking with the EC and playing the enhancement immediately isn't legal unless an ability allows you to do so.

This doesn't have to be in the form of asking "is it my initiative?", waiting before playing also works.

Source please?  I am not being pedantic, just need to know what the ruling actually is.  Waiting before playing can actually be worse, how long is long enough?  IS there a ruling on that?  As a tournament judge I am bound to the rules.

While it is not a written rule, it's good etiquette and good sportsmanship to request initiative before playing an enhancement. Honestly, I would probably have ruled that Player 2 needed to pick up their enhancement and request initiative, at which point Player 1 could play AotL. My feeling is that any ruling other than this encourages playing dirty and dishonorably. I know for a fact that many tournament judges would rule this way as well.

Knowing both players in question this not a case of "playing dirty", I would prefer not to start that can of worms in this discussion.  If there is a pause while Player 1 decides to Aotl, Player 2 see's no action starts to play the enhancement and while Player 2 starts to grab his enhancement Player 1 makes up his mind and start to play AOTL.  Neither player was trying to "cheat" the other.  That is just how it sometimes happens, especially across multiple age ranges where cognitive reaction is not the same speed.

You're not allowed to play enhancements until all players concede that you're allowed to do so (or a special ability says to). If the opponent understands he wants to play Angel of the Lord before you play an enhancement, you must allow him to do so. Blocking with the EC and playing the enhancement immediately isn't legal unless an ability allows you to do so.

This doesn't have to be in the form of asking "is it my initiative?", waiting before playing also works.

I agree in general, however, I think that asking for initiative is the best way. This avoids both questions of "how much waiting time is sufficient?" and "which one takes place if it can be determined which hit the table first?"

I would agree as well but that is not currently a rule is it?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 02:00:18 PM »
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You're not allowed to play enhancements until all players concede that you're allowed to do so (or a special ability says to). If the opponent understands he wants to play Angel of the Lord before you play an enhancement, you must allow him to do so. Blocking with the EC and playing the enhancement immediately isn't legal unless an ability allows you to do so.

This doesn't have to be in the form of asking "is it my initiative?", waiting before playing also works.

I agree in general, however, I think that asking for initiative is the best way. This avoids both questions of "how much waiting time is sufficient?" and "which one takes place if it can be determined which hit the table first?"

I would agree as well but that is not currently a rule is it?

Yes, that is the current ruling. You are not allow to "slapjack" an enhancement on a character to avoid giving your opponent the chance to play a dominant.
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 02:05:37 PM »
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Yes, that is the current ruling. You are not allow to "slapjack" an enhancement on a character to avoid giving your opponent the chance to play a dominant.

I should have clarified, What I meant was that asking your opponent for intitiative is not the current rule.  Not that slapjacking enhancements was not the current rule.  So Gabe would you say that I should have ruled that the AOTL went through before the enhancement?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2011, 02:07:51 PM »
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If it's not clear that the player was given a chance to play their dominant before an opponent played an enhancement I would rule in favor of the dominant every time.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2011, 03:11:10 PM »
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If it's not clear that the player was given a chance to play their dominant before an opponent played an enhancement I would rule in favor of the dominant every time.
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2011, 03:13:55 PM »
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Well that seals it for me.  Thanks guys.
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Offline sgtme1

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Re: Intiative vs. Dominants
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2011, 10:08:14 PM »
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I know I may be jumping in on the subject a little late, but here is my two cents .

There is a ruling that you do have to agnolig the I initiative to play an enhancement. The fact to come up with a general rule for every situation it has to go back to that ruling.   Now it Also co
Es into thought that maybe for the earlier parts of the game were a nod of a head to signal there initiative.  ( I personally always State "so my initiative" )   If the card was "slapjacked" then if it was me I would have ruled the dominant president over the enhancement .     

If the initiative was confirmed and the enhancement was played then, as we know the DOM. Does not interrupt the thee enhancement.   

Hope my two cents help and questions still there, and wasn't just another post pushing a old battle. 


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Edit: ps sorry for any spelling errors I was posting this on my iPhone, which loves to auto correct without my initiative concent:-p
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 10:11:56 PM by sgtme1 »

 


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