Author Topic: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"  (Read 871 times)

Offline EmJayBee83

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When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« on: May 27, 2012, 08:54:09 PM »
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The subject pretty much says all.

For a most egregious specific example... Characters are not officially "in battle" until all of their SA's complete. So, say I am making a RA and my opponent places King Rehoboam in the field of battle which starts a good vs. good side battle.  In this case when is Rehoboam officially in battle? When my opponent starts the side battle?  When the side battle completes? Some other time?

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 10:59:35 AM »
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The idea that characters aren't in battle until their abilities complete is something I've heard often (and have probably said at some point) but the more I think about it, the less I agree with it or can find any reason why it must be that way. It is inconsistent with certain characters' abilities. For example, Jezebel's ability to band to King Ahab isn't considered complete until Ahab's ability is complete (that is a long established ruling regarding such cards as Seven Wicked Spirits), however, if Jezebel is not in battle until after Ahab's ability is complete, how can Ahab ever perform his second ability?

Unless someone can give me an REG quote that says so, or a reason why it should be that way, I am inclined to say that the idea that characters aren't in battle until their SAs complete is either an archaic ruling that seemed necessary before the concepts of triggered/conditional abilities were ironed out, or it was never an official ruling to begin with, and just an explanation someone used for some purpose that kind of stuck.

That said, I would rule that Rehoboam is in the main battle during the entirety of the side battle.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:01:44 AM by Professoralstad »
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Offline JSB23

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Re: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 01:01:41 PM »
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Unless someone can give me an REG quote that says so, or a reason why it should be that way
The ruling came out of the Micheal/Angel's sword Vs. Rabbshak/2k Horses debacle. Whoever made the ruling needed to justify why 2K takes precedent over Sword, so they said a character is not considered "blocking" (I.E. In battle) until all of their abilities (including weapons) complete.
An unanswered question is infinitely better than an unquestioned answer.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 06:01:58 PM »
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Ah yes. I believe that that question now would be simply answered by order of operations, in that triggered abilities (like Angel's Sword) happen after all other abilities on characters and their associated weapons resolve.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 10:49:28 PM »
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OK. Putting aside the discussion on whether or not to re-define what "in battle" means for a character,* can you answer my original question? The REG defines side battle SAs to be instant abilities. It also notes that an instant ability must "complete" prior to another ability being inserted. When--exactly--does a side battle SA complete? When the characters in the side battle are mustered into combat?  At the end of the side battle? Some other time?

Once again--an example...  I make an RA and my opponent blocks with King Rehoboam (Kings). When would I be allowed to play my Angel of the Lord on King R?

*Putting it aside because I assume such a redefinition will require an elder convocation to which 99% 98% of us will not be invited to participate.

Fixed per RDT's numbers given below.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:08:20 PM by EmJayBee83 »

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: When do Side Battle SAs "Complete?"
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2012, 10:56:00 PM »
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You think that there are 1485 people playing redemption? I think that might be a bit high of an estimate - We only have 667 people on the boards - And half of those aren't even active players anymore. Now I understand that there's more people not on the boards than are on the boards, but not that many.

I would rule that you can play your Angel of the Lord on Rehoboam after the characters are mustered into the side battle - I'll start a discussion on the Elder side - Part of the problem with Side Battles is that they're unlike any other ability in the game.
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